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The rise of user-hostile software

den.dev

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Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#91

Post by avnigo »

> However, the problem is becoming much more endemic lately, with everyone on the hunt for more data, more accounts, and a level of access to a computer that would make it seem like they’re using it as a giant bullseye for everyone on the Internet.

And I would argue that the main driving force for that is for selling your data to advertisers on software that is free (and sometimes paid), and maybe to increase sales on software that is paid. All this, quite possibly, at a privacy detriment to the user.

I don't think the fault lies directly and singly on developers, as mentioned in the article, but many are reacting to the way the software market currently works, and attempt to gain that edge. A lot of the big-name software may also likely be designed by committee, one of which may include the marketing department, growth analytics etc.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#92

Post by jasonhansel »

The issue is that there's a reason software is so user-hostile: it increases profits for the software's developers. If we want to get better software, we need an economic system that changes the incentives.

One way to get there could be to encourage widespread adoption of copyleft licenses like the GPL, which would encourage more corporations to release their software as FOSS, thus exposing them to competition from more user-friendly forks.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#94

Post by bo1024 »

This strikes me as extremely generous.

I agree that on an individual level, developers may be just following an industry-trend path of least resistance. The trend is putting the developer first.

But as a general phenomenon, it's exploitative. The goal is to capture as much of the user's time, attention, and data as possible.

Sometimes I feel silly for prioritizing FOSS highly, but sometimes not. At least I don't ever put up with this kind of stuff.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#95

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #90
merpnderp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convenience. You can google the answer faster than your calculator app can even open.

If this was true for _any_ platform I would immediately throw it away. But the point is that there is, for some reason, a pressure for platforms to be this way; convenience is not the cause.

Unfortunately it is true for almost any platform I've tried. Calculator applications have become as bloated as everything else.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#96

Post by [deleted] »

echopom wrote: post #88

Nothing new here ! The vast majority of Today's software is built by "Corporate Developers" and "Corporate Business Owner". Generally these people don't have any background in UX or UI or simply commonsense about software ergonomics. An example would be Stripe , as an Architect in Banking I've spend years explaining to Executives and Business Owner to invest in "Partner Experience" and good "Developer Ecosystem" , so…

[deleted]

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#97

Post by nonameiguess »

greatgib wrote: post #44

This article is globally so true, but there is a major error: It is not "needs of developers" the problem, but the "needs of product manager, marketing, c-level asshole". Like for telemetry, most of the time the business side "can", so they do. And again, for specific app and co, most developer would complain and not like release such user-hostile software but they are forced by business to do it. Like this stupid pr…

"Developer" here isn't being used to mean only the people who directly write code. It means the entire organization responsible for developing the product, which includes the managers, marketing, and executives. As in Microsoft the company is the developer of Windows, and Windows is made in such a way as to prioritize the needs of Microsoft over the needs of Windows users. They're not prioritizing the needs of any specific employee or category of employees. All stakeholder groups on the producer side may or may not be fighting for their own specific interests, but collectively producer-side stakeholder groups are given way more of a say than consumer-side, because the consumer-side only has the purchase as their tool to influence product decisions, and thanks to various forms of lock-in and information asymmetry, they can't or won't make informed purchasing choices that force Microsoft to care about them.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#98

Post by squarefoot »

marcodiego wrote: post #67
TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

> most mainstream software from renowned companies should be [...] classified as malware. Most FLOSS has not fallen in this category.

Exactly. To keep being user-hostile and keep the user base, software needs to satisfy some requisites: being closed or depending on not reproducible proprietary services, or having no better competitors. A user-hostile software that happens to be useful and is open would be forked and cleaned in no time, or users would flee to the competition if there is any. The fact that the most user-hostile applications today live in closed proprietary PC or mobile operating systems, or proprietary services where there is no such thing as either openness or competition, gives an hint on where the problem is.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#99

Post by michaelcampbell »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

> back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes.

Clearly not the case or they wouldn't have been as ubiquitous as they were.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#100

Post by TeMPOraL »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66
TeMPOraL wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? What they want, first and foremost, is to not be a generic hardware manufacturer . Quite a lot of those user-hostile choices - custom apps, SaaS-ification, focus on collaboration features - are attempts to prevent the product from being a commodity. For example, I can replace my current washing machine with any other model of any other bra…

> What they want, first and foremost, is to not be a generic hardware manufacturer. Every once in a while I day dream about starting a company[0] called something like "Generic Products" where all we do is make the most basic bog-standard things with no extra garbage or marketing bullshit, striving to have as few different models as possible. Amazon basics and https://xkcd.com/993/ are similar ideas. [0] Never let me…

We can do a joint venture with my occasional day-dream company, which would sell appliances designed for longevity - e.g. an electric kettle or hairdryer designed to last you a 100 years. Featuring generic packaging[0], lifetime warranty, and extreme repairability - with CAD and circuit diagrams in the box, and spare parts available for as long as they can be manufactured. If any substantial change happens over the years (e.g. we change AC frequencies or switch from AC to DC mains), the company would also sell conversion kits.

--

[0] - Seriously, xkcd/993 is what I dream the shopping experience to look like.

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