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The rise of user-hostile software

den.dev

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Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#71

Post by oytis »

forgingahead wrote: post #9
southerntofu wrote: post #4

Would be nice to have more communities dedicated to bloat-free, user-respecting UX... that are not complete pro-hitler neonazis like the suckless clique. I'm all ears for links and suggestions!

What do you mean? I didn't know anything about them until this thread, and then there is this comment[0] where one of the devs clearly states: 1. They don't politicise in their group 2. The commenter literally says: "Torch hikes are nothing unusual in Germany and there was no political intent behind it." What's the issue then? Serious question and relevant to the thread because I too would love to see more communitie…

Torch hikes are nothing unusual, but when done by groups of young men with cleanly shaved heads in camouflage outfit it's a pretty clear statement.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#72

Post by II2II »

nicbou wrote: post #2

With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses. I can understand that monetisation and user well-being can be at odds sometimes (e.g. with free apps and services), but surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? This is why I tend to buy things that use generic, open standards. I don't trust some…

> With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses.

Why does a company need an end game? That implies there are winners and losers, with the winner taking all. Shouldn't we be striving for a more diverse business environment, where there is credible competition to help keep the actions of businesses in check? Wouldn't this be a healthier environment for businesses as well, since they could focus upon long term sustainability?

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#73

Post by gumby »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #21
nicbou wrote: post #2

With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses. I can understand that monetisation and user well-being can be at odds sometimes (e.g. with free apps and services), but surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? This is why I tend to buy things that use generic, open standards. I don't trust some…

> surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? What they want, first and foremost, is to not be a generic hardware manufacturer . Quite a lot of those user-hostile choices - custom apps, SaaS-ification, focus on collaboration features - are attempts to prevent the product from being a commodity. For example, I can replace my current washing machine with any other model of any other bra…

> Or, "I can't stop using Google Docs because a bunch of non-techies I have to deal with don't know how to (or don't want to) use anything else".

Interesting example. I’ve worked with two organizations this year (one large, one small), both of whom happily use gmail, google docs etc. In both cases people expressed surprise that my address wasn’t gmail.com, that on a screen share my search was different etc.

Some of these people expressed concerns about privacy but clearly had no understanding of how pervasive the spy infrastructure is. And why should they? Their expertise lay in other domains.

The private sector has a lot to answer for and an government-driven response (driven by a combination of experts, ignorami, and grandstanders) will be their own fault.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#74

Post by rlonstein »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #49
Aeolun wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just buy a laser printer and never have the issue again?

Better yet: get rid of all printers. Stop printing. I haven’t needed to print anything in the past 28 months. When I do need to print something it’s a 5 minute walk to the town library where I can print 100 sheets for free every month.

If your life aligns with it, great (I also like that you're using the public library, I'm on my local library board and we also have b/w and color printer/copiers for patrons)!

To reduce my printing and improve my own convenience, I replaced my failing twelve year old Brother laser with a Brother laser multifunction. Now when I deal with paperwork for my accountant, lawyer, bank, etc. I scan and send them a PDF. I made a scan of my signature and apply it as needed. With a few exceptions this has been acceptable. The kitchen chromebook is still no substitute for printing out recipes, though :)

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#76

Post by kayodelycaon »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #49
Aeolun wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just buy a laser printer and never have the issue again?

Better yet: get rid of all printers. Stop printing. I haven’t needed to print anything in the past 28 months. When I do need to print something it’s a 5 minute walk to the town library where I can print 100 sheets for free every month.

Some of us have use cases where this won’t work. :)

I happen to like my photo printer. Ordering a hundred 13x19 prints would cost more than all that I spent on the printer, ink, and paper.

I still use my ten-year-old laser printer several times per month. Usually for RPG character sheets or paper copies of notes. Sometimes I’ll print out a story I’m beta reading. If I need a printout at 7pm on a Monday, the library isn’t open.

I have gone digital with a lot of things, for instance: all of my handwritten notes go on a reMarkable 2 now.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#77

Post by admax88qqq »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #41
zksmk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Something weird happened over the past decade. I blame it on social media monopolies, or at least effective monopolies, oligopolies, and the network effect. Once everyone was sucked into these silos and unable to leave they could do whatever they wanted with the user experience without repercussions. And once everyone was used to it and took it as a given it was only a matter of time before it leaked even into deskt…

I blame it on web development, pure and simple. The relentless drive for analytics and advertising is what brought the acceptance of spying.

And yet almost every example of malware in the article is a native app.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#78

Post by gumby »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #49
Aeolun wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just buy a laser printer and never have the issue again?

Better yet: get rid of all printers. Stop printing. I haven’t needed to print anything in the past 28 months. When I do need to print something it’s a 5 minute walk to the town library where I can print 100 sheets for free every month.

I was away when our printer ran out of toner. My son called me concerned that he had an assignment due and needed to print something out.

As I wasn’t home I had to resort to online. Amazon would deliver an entire laser printer in an hour for less than the cost of a new toner cartridge (no generic cartridges in the one hour service).

Five years later we are still on the starter toner cartridge that came with that printer.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#79

Post by literallyaduck »

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.” – Henry Ford

If you have the users design a car you end up with a Homer bubble car.

A better strategy is don't be an asshole.

You know telemetry on by default is wrong.

Putting sane defaults that the users must opt in instead of opt out is right.

No one wants to make an account for your product, other login choices are usually available, but don't force it if you don't need it.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#80

Post by kstenerud »

You'll notice that all of his examples of user-hostile software lack a universally accepted standard. This is not new.

Do you need to install special vendor software to use your bluetooth devices? No - everyone follows the standard, so your OS just knows how to hook up your headset. With USB it's different, because the standards are insufficient for the gadgets that we use, resulting in specialized software for your extra buttons, light shows, sensitivity, etc.

Two prime older examples are graphics cards and printers. There has never been a driver standard for either that was universally accepted (after VGA and VESA local bus), and so the only alternative is bespoke software. Remember when game controllers needed specialized drivers (Sound Blaster)? I do.

And it's not like this is limited to software either. There are plenty of standards and lack-of-standards in construction, automotive, even electrical in some cases. One of the most expensive explosions in history was the result of a mismatch between metric and imperial measures.

Want to get away from this nightmare of custom-implementations-for-everything? Push for sane and comprehensive standards.

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