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The rise of user-hostile software

den.dev

61–70 of 303 posts

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#61
post #2

With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses. I can understand that monetisation and user well-being can be at odds sometimes (e.g. with free apps and services), but surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? This is why I tend to buy things that use generic, open standards. I don't trust some…

I hate my brother printer. Now I have to do some weird black magic that involves pulling out the power cable and paper tray and inserting the cable while holding some buttons in order for it to even turn on. A year earlier it suddenly stopped being able to print wirelessly and, as with all cartridge printers, the ink is crazy expensive. A month ago I bought an HP printer with an ink reservoir for my mother and it is…

When people talk about good reliable Brother printers they're always talking about their cheap laser line.

Inkjet printers exist in two forms: Quality photo printers and complete garbage.

They are not for documents or other normal printing, that's what laser printers are for. Your primary printer should not be an inkjet unless you only ever print color photos.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#62

Ultimately, a developer's or a company's objective is not to provide good software, but to succeed financially (or in some other metric). This is somewhat aligned with the user's needs - if a user wants a calculator app, it should do arithmetics. But beyond that, The Dev is not a benevolent entity, and users are a means to an end. It doesn't have to be cynical and exploitative, but when push comes to shove, The Dev w…

Of course there are other motives. For most Free Software the motive is "Make something that is good for me." Still not optimal for other users but closer aligned.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#63
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Something weird happened over the past decade. I blame it on social media monopolies, or at least effective monopolies, oligopolies, and the network effect. Once everyone was sucked into these silos and unable to leave they could do whatever they wanted with the user experience without repercussions. And once everyone was used to it and took it as a given it was only a matter of time before it leaked even into deskt…

I blame it on web development, pure and simple. The relentless drive for analytics and advertising is what brought the acceptance of spying.

I blame Javascript and the "hipster" devs that fueled its rise unnaturally.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#64

This article is globally so true, but there is a major error: It is not "needs of developers" the problem, but the "needs of product manager, marketing, c-level asshole". Like for telemetry, most of the time the business side "can", so they do. And again, for specific app and co, most developer would complain and not like release such user-hostile software but they are forced by business to do it. Like this stupid pr…

> It is not "needs of developers" the problem, but the "needs of product manager, marketing, c-level asshole".

Not entirely. Developers still make choices to use slow and bloated software stacks to save themselves time, which definitely negatively affects the user experience.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#65

This article is globally so true, but there is a major error: It is not "needs of developers" the problem, but the "needs of product manager, marketing, c-level asshole". Like for telemetry, most of the time the business side "can", so they do. And again, for specific app and co, most developer would complain and not like release such user-hostile software but they are forced by business to do it. Like this stupid pr…

> It is not "needs of developers" the problem, but the "needs of product manager, marketing, c-level asshole". Not entirely. Developers still make choices to use slow and bloated software stacks to save themselves time, which definitely negatively affects the user experience.

What stacks? I've yet to encounter a popular stack claiming itself as slow and bloated. React? Angular? Electron? There are very slim and fast apps built with those stacks.

And if someone built slow Electron app, I'm sure that he would build slow Qt app (not sure if Qt considered slim nowadays). It comes either from lack of experience or lack of focus on performance. And that does not depend on stack.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#66
post #2

With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses. I can understand that monetisation and user well-being can be at odds sometimes (e.g. with free apps and services), but surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? This is why I tend to buy things that use generic, open standards. I don't trust some…

> surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? What they want, first and foremost, is to not be a generic hardware manufacturer . Quite a lot of those user-hostile choices - custom apps, SaaS-ification, focus on collaboration features - are attempts to prevent the product from being a commodity. For example, I can replace my current washing machine with any other model of any other bra…

> What they want, first and foremost, is to not be a generic hardware manufacturer.

Every once in a while I day dream about starting a company[0] called something like "Generic Products" where all we do is make the most basic bog-standard things with no extra garbage or marketing bullshit, striving to have as few different models as possible. Amazon basics and https://xkcd.com/993/ are similar ideas.

[0] Never let me start a company, I am not suited for this job.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#67

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

> most mainstream software from renowned companies should be [...] classified as malware.

Most FLOSS has not fallen in this category.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#68
post #46

Natural selection will quickly weed out everyone who tries to follow the suggested path. Simply due to cost of traffic becoming lower than revenue.

Cost of traffic for a hardware monitoring/config utility? Not everything needs to be a service, and this is also a perfect example of why some things shouldn't be services, just plain old downloadable software.

Yet people will happily use frigging GOOGLE out of all services _as a calculator_ rather than their happily locally working and probably much more featureful calculator app.

People are using, for a simple two digit multiplication, a bazillion tons of hardware distributed thorugh hundreds of countries hundreds of miles away. Even the simplest microcontroller amongst all the hardware participating in this www query would be able to do hundreds of these simple multiplications _per nanosecond_. But no, people query google.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a lot of jumping to conclusions to fit your pre-determined opinion of them. Without derailing the thread, I do think we all need to extend charity to people who have openly declared what their affiliations are not . We shouldn't normalise bad interpretations regardless of our own biases. They have said they're not, so we should take them at face value. Let's now focus on participating to achieve the s…

> This seems like a lot of jumping to conclusions to fit your pre-determined opinion of them. Unfortunately, that's the opposite. I was very interested in suckless some years ago, and was very disappointed to learn their tolerance (if not sympathy) towards nazism. > They have said they're not, so we should take them at face value. Denying affiliation is a classic strategy in psyops. The alt-right and manosphere have…

> Denying affiliation is a classic strategy in psyops. The alt-right and manosphere have established entire PR strategies based on that.

The same is true for attributing tainted characteristics to your ideological opponents - just call them "nazi" or "fascist" and anything goes. If they deny that they are nazis or fascists, well, that just proves they are nazis or fascists. This is called a Kafka trap. It is the same tactic used by so-called anti-fascists to legitimise physical assault on ideological opponents, they just simply call them "nazi" and start a "punch a nazi" campaign. It is also the tactic used by Ibram Henry Rogers (who took up the nom-de-guerre "Ibram X. Kendi") to be able to label people racist by stating that those who deny they are racist thereby confirm their racism. What all these tactics have in common is that they do not actually aim to confirm or refute the presence of a given trait, instead they are used to force another trait upon the accused - whether that be "anti-fascism" (which you referred to) or "anti-racism" (which Rogers refers to). Those forced traits tend to carry the name of the thing they supposedly refute while often encompassing elements of the refuted trait: so-called anti-fascists act like fascists, so-called anti-racists call for racism like the following quote from Rogers' "How to be an anti-racist": "The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination".

This can be generalised: the opposite of an extreme opinion is another extreme opinion, the opposite of an extremist is another extremist.

> I'd be more inclined to trust a person/collective declaring they anti-nazi (or antifascist if you will), than a person/collective declaring they're "not a nazi" then leaving traces of nazi symbolism everywhere.

Honest question: would you be more inclined to trust a person or collective declaring themselves to be, say, anti-communist than one declaring not to be communist? I have seen a glaring discrepancy between the trust put in so-called "anti-fascists" (who more often than not are all too happy to use the same tactics as the original brownshirts used to spread their ideology) and that put in those calling themselves "anti-communist" with the former being given the benefit of the doubt while the latter are watched with suspicion since they may be "right-wingers". Well, yes, they might lean to the right, just like those "anti-fascists" most likely lean to the left. Whether that makes the one better than the other depends solely on your ideological standpoint and as such is subjective, not objective.

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