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The rise of user-hostile software

den.dev

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Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#31

Post by pcdoodle »

southerntofu wrote: post #15
baal80spam wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, it seems the discussion hit the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law really quick.

That's unrelated. Godwin's law state that you would call someone you disagree with a nazi in order to discredit them. In this case, i agree with the suckless arguments, but i'm considering serious evidence that key contributors to the suckless community are actual neonazis, and that the community at large seems ok with it because they claim to be non-political (see other comments).

Whatever, Racist

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#32

Post by quickthrower2 »

> At the time of writing, this blog collects anonymized data with Google Analytics. Don’t want to send it? Have your browser send a Do Not Track request and no data will leave this page. It takes an if statement to do this, not a month of engineering work.

How is this consistent with the message to not be hostile?

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#33

Post by quickthrower2 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #29

This flowchart is true for many things... even webpages: How many users actually wanted to subrscribe to your newsletter the first time they visited your page, before they even read the first article there? How many first-time visitors actually want to donate money? ...

How many users want to have to have the inconvenience of paying for the software too!

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#34

Post by zksmk »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

>Something weird happened over the past decade.

I blame it on social media monopolies, or at least effective monopolies, oligopolies, and the network effect. Once everyone was sucked into these silos and unable to leave they could do whatever they wanted with the user experience without repercussions. And once everyone was used to it and took it as a given it was only a matter of time before it leaked even into desktop apps or even Windows, and people just accepted it. What I think could reverse the user hostility trend would be competition which would require breaking the oligopolies/network effect which means the rise of Linux desktop or Fediverse platforms, and that's gonna be a while, but not impossible. And of course there are limits to how far they can degrade the user experience without starting to lose users so I don't think it can be a lot worse than now, but still we're stuck with the status quo.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#35

Post by forgingahead »

southerntofu wrote: post #25
forgingahead wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a lot of jumping to conclusions to fit your pre-determined opinion of them. Without derailing the thread, I do think we all need to extend charity to people who have openly declared what their affiliations are not . We shouldn't normalise bad interpretations regardless of our own biases. They have said they're not, so we should take them at face value. Let's now focus on participating to achieve the s…

> This seems like a lot of jumping to conclusions to fit your pre-determined opinion of them. Unfortunately, that's the opposite. I was very interested in suckless some years ago, and was very disappointed to learn their tolerance (if not sympathy) towards nazism. > They have said they're not, so we should take them at face value. Denying affiliation is a classic strategy in psyops. The alt-right and manosphere have…

I'm sorry, but motivation and intent matters. "Software group dedicated to Nazism and user-friendly and non-bloated software" seems like a hell of a weird combination.

I think you're mistaken in your interpretation, especially given their own clarifications, however let's not derail this thread further, and let's agree that user-friendly non-bloated non-spyware technology is a good goal for all of us even if we pursue them in different groups.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#36

Post by flyinghamster »

Hear, hear! My disillusionment with tech is at full boil at this point. It's gotten to the point where I trust tech products about as much as I'd trust a wild chimpanzee.

Unfortunately, one person boycotting hostile tech is like one person trying to bail out the Titanic with a teaspoon.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#37

Post by FeepingCreature »

southerntofu wrote: post #10
raspyberr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Suckless.org https://lobste.rs/s/kpuj8p/why_i_use_suckless_tools#c_4g2lqi

[flagged]

> +(You can guess who's the Führer.)

To clarify, it's Lennart Poettering. This is a systemd joke in poor taste, but that's all it is.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#38

Post by FeepingCreature »

fmajid wrote: post #19
southerntofu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Wow, I was unaware of this subtext, thanks for exposing it. Germany has very tough laws against glorifying the Nazi regime, so if they are Germans it’s not just sick humor but deliberate. Though Suckless vs. Poetering seems like a Hitler vs. Stalin evil-fights-evil situation best avoided by giving both a wide berth.

Germany does not have laws against Nazi jokes.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#39

Post by mosselman »

nicbou wrote: post #2

With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses. I can understand that monetisation and user well-being can be at odds sometimes (e.g. with free apps and services), but surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? This is why I tend to buy things that use generic, open standards. I don't trust some…

I hate my brother printer. Now I have to do some weird black magic that involves pulling out the power cable and paper tray and inserting the cable while holding some buttons in order for it to even turn on.

A year earlier it suddenly stopped being able to print wirelessly and, as with all cartridge printers, the ink is crazy expensive.

A month ago I bought an HP printer with an ink reservoir for my mother and it is great. You don't need apps to print and printing costs nothing compared to traditional printing. It comes with ink for about 10k pages and new ink costs around 10 euros.

The best in class for ink-tank printers are supposedly Epson and instead of buying new ink for my own printer, I'll probably just buy one of those.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#40

Post by selfhoster11 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

Precisely. The fact that most software these days can be called "spyware" and "adware" is very unsettling from the perspective of someone who got into computing at around the time of Windows 98.
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