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The Clickbaitification of Netflix

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Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#121

Post by matsemann »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #6

I believe Netflix has talked about thumbnail experimentation at length in some of their engineering blogs [1]. To me, it seems perhaps Netflix has figured out a running theme in the author's viewing habits... perhaps the scandalous, soapy stuff is what they keep clicking. Same kind of reaction I get when a guy friend tells me they keep getting ads for women's bikinis or women's underwear in their Instagram ads. It is…

> It isn't sexualization of Instagram... it is a reflection of your interaction with the platform!

No, that "gotcha" is blatantly wrong. If you follow running people, Instagram will float you popular running content. What's popular running content? Girls posing in yogapants. Same for other niches. The most popular and thus shown content will always be a sexual version of the theme.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#122

Post by janfoeh »

maverwa wrote: post #111
yarcob wrote: post #102

This is why I quit my Netflix subscription. The algorithm seems to have picked up the fact that I like watching SciFi and Zombie movies, so my Netflix homepage was this dark place filled with Sci Fi and Zombie movies. One problem with this is that Netflix only has a handful of good SciFi and Zombie movies, and I've seen them all. So the homepage was filled with movies I've seen already, or the dime-a-dozen copycat mo…

I have a similar problem with amazon music and spotify: Yes, they are good at picking music I like, but really bad at adding something new. Spotify is better at this, as it does not give you the one "your radio". At amazon music it basically played only those songs I told it about, and a few very very narrow matches, but close to nothing I did not already know.

Nothing I've ever seen did that better than Pandora. Unfortunately I had only sporadic access via VPN because of their inability to secure international licensing, but during those times I discovered more music than ever before or since.

Apple Musics "Create station from track" feature comes very close, though. Back when it appeared I remember reading they had humans tag and classify tracks manually, just like Pandora, which may explain the similar results.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#123

Post by dr_dshiv »

verve_rat wrote: post #86
dr_dshiv wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How might a streaming service be designed to increase user happiness and wellbeing? From a positive design perspective, could certain streaming features give users a greater sense of purpose or goal accomplishment (e.g., mastering a genre) or help users meaningfully connect to others (e.g., seeing what friends have recommended lately)? While measuring the effects of a feature on wellbeing outcomes is substantially ha…

Maybe... make good shows?

Totally. But what's the metric for good? If it is the average time spent watching or most likely to be chosen out of a slate of options, then we get the current problem.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#124

Post by lotsofpulp »

kungito wrote: post #100
pizza234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opposite opinion. They're executing their vision perfectly. Netflix is very aggressively pursuing the bottom line, and they're not doing it differently from a drug dealer. It's not random that the term "Netflix binge" exists. Netflix interface is designed to shove content at the users' face at all costs, and in a very disrespectful way. Here there are some disgusting dark patterns: - it took them a long ti…

The sad part is that I am probably in some minority and hence no one will care to fix scenarios for me. The only time I now watch Netflix is when I want to watch something specifically and I search where can I watch it and it turns out it exists on Netflix (of course, never recommended to me). I wonder how much long term will Netflix be impacted by the fact that their Originals are of way lower quality than HBO origi…

Unfortunately, the new HBO content is the same as Netflix. After HBO was sold to ATT a couple years, the executives that made HBO HBO were all shown the door and now I believe their goal is quantity over quality.

Apple TV+ feels like it could be the new HBO in terms of curation, but we will see if they keep up the quality ratio.

My simple method of not wasting time on all this nonsense content coming out is to just wait for a bunch of people in my various networks to mention something about the show/movie. If multiple of them like something enough to mention it, then I probably will, so I just search it out after that.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#125

Post by bertil »

personjerry wrote: post #7

I worked at Facebook for some time, and did a bunch of data work. We had this culture of building something, looking at the results between the experiment groups, and then choosing the statistically more successful one -- i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. This sounds great at first, and certainly is straightforward if you want a promotion. But behind the scenes some of us had this thought that our…

I’ve worked on similar experiments (starting about Stories) and we included long-term holdout experiment to measure the compounded impact of sharing. The fear at the time was more about professional content (with millions of views) vs. your friends. The worry was because people engaged more with the former but posted more if they saw the later.

I left before conclusions were drawn, but (according to press reports) those experiments changed the goals to more leading indicator of long-term trend, like posting rather than Likes. I joined again more recently and expected to see that it influenced the company.

I’m not working there at the moment.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#126

Post by bertil »

qwertox wrote: post #71
personjerry wrote: post #7

I worked at Facebook for some time, and did a bunch of data work. We had this culture of building something, looking at the results between the experiment groups, and then choosing the statistically more successful one -- i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. This sounds great at first, and certainly is straightforward if you want a promotion. But behind the scenes some of us had this thought that our…

> i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. Sometimes (but rarely) I click on something because I ask myself "Why would these a---- show me this? I want to know more about what's behind it in order to understand what could have made their algorithm chose me as a candidate for this content". Or to check where the scam-URL would lead me to, because this also happens, that ads sold on Google and Facebook are…

There were tools to help answer your question (predictably called “Why am I seeing this?” after the button copy). Those had so little engagement they were not worth maintaining.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#127

Post by lotsofpulp »

HWR_14 wrote: post #38
tornato7 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix REALLY went for quantity over quality with their library. I'm certain that there are some great shows in there, but I have to start ten different series just to find one I like. On the other end of the spectrum, the Disney+ library is rather small, but I find at least half the shows to be enjoyable, so that's where I turn to first.

Netflix started out with a huge amount of content. I'm sure they're scared that no longer seeming to have everything will hurt their subscriber base. One way to make it look like you still have everything is to have an overwhelming amount of stuff.

That will work in the short term, but perhaps hurt them in the long term.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#128

Post by mdoms »

fumblebee wrote: post #98
ricardobeat wrote: post #69

> users consider each title for a whopping 1.8 seconds Users are most likely not “considering” them at all. We’re not machines going over one tile at a time and generating a score. Most of the time you’re looking for something specific and just trying to find it. This type of metric is the worst. I really hope this data-driven fad dies down and we start designing with human factors in mind again.

I'm not certain what you mean by human factors, so correct me if I've misinterpreted. If by human factors you mean basic heuristics based on human intuition, that fails too. It might satisfy 50% of viewers but there's too much diversity in taste for this to be a good model. I'm not defending the metric as described, but there's obviously good data driven approaches and bad ones. The trick is to find a solid proxy for…

"Human factors" could include doing something as radical as observing how someone uses your product (no, not with a computer - just watch) and then - and this is the shocking part - speak to them. Ask them why they did that or what they liked and didn't like.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#129

Post by sanitycheck »

i2shar wrote: post #63
pizza234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opposite opinion. They're executing their vision perfectly. Netflix is very aggressively pursuing the bottom line, and they're not doing it differently from a drug dealer. It's not random that the term "Netflix binge" exists. Netflix interface is designed to shove content at the users' face at all costs, and in a very disrespectful way. Here there are some disgusting dark patterns: - it took them a long ti…

Add one more to the list - and this one drives me crazy to no end - on my Chromecast with GTV the wretched thing starts autoplaying even if I just want to read the synopsis. This, despite turning off all autoplay options in my profile. What is the friggin rush?! Why won't you let me browse/read distraction free?!

Look out for this annoying autoplay thing in every other app soon. I do some work in the same space and everyone* thinks if Netflix is doing it it must be a great idea.

(*who makes decisions)

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#130

Post by lotsofpulp »

arcturus17 wrote: post #83
throwawaysea wrote: post #23

Personally although I do see “sexy” titles on Netflix strewn about, it isn’t a big distraction or problem the way this article makes it out to be. The real problem is that most of the content is B tier straight to video content. I’m drowning in choices and I don’t mean within Netflix but elsewhere - I’m simply not compelled to spend my valuable minutes there and these days I rarely load their app. I’ll probably end u…

I feel the same. I think their content is a sea of mediocrity. I cancelled my sub and I make do with Amazon Prime which is not much better but does have some good exclusives and obviously the shipping benefits. I’m also considering a return to piracy with a NAS since a lot of movies (esp. classics) are simply unavailable anywhere, even pay-per-view services like Amazon, Apple or Google.

I am wondering if this is what getting old is like. I get more enjoyment out of rewatching all the stuff from my youth than new content. And I am only mid 30s, but I would rather close my eyes and pick a random movie or tv show on my NAS from 80s/90s/00s and watch that over new content.
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