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The Clickbaitification of Netflix

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Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#81

Post by uxcolumbo »

personjerry wrote: post #7

I worked at Facebook for some time, and did a bunch of data work. We had this culture of building something, looking at the results between the experiment groups, and then choosing the statistically more successful one -- i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. This sounds great at first, and certainly is straightforward if you want a promotion. But behind the scenes some of us had this thought that our…

Off topic: To me they seem to focus on quantity over quality. Can you recommend some of that quality content? I always quit after browsing their catalogue for 20 minutes or so.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#82

Post by cbg0 »

sgt wrote: post #73
barneybooroo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your outrage that they’re commissioning content that reflects a diversity of experience?

They're shoving the agenda down our throats. A lot of shows become overly politicized, with messages of trans rights, BLM, and other stuff being injected to such a degree that it becomes too much and frankly artificial. I'm not against political and societal messages in TV shows and movies - that has been done for decades, but not if it takes away from the writing and quality of the show. We see that in extreme level…

> I'm not against political and societal messages in TV shows and movies - that has been done for decades, but not if it takes away from the writing and quality of the show.

I think if you replace the last part of this with "as long as it doesn't bother me" then your statement is probably more accurate. From my experience bad shows are bad because of terrible writing overall, not because one of the characters is a minority.

> We see that in extreme levels at the moment.

Compared to a decade or more ago when you weren't seeing trans people on TV, I guess you could say it's "extreme" nowadays.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#83

Post by arcturus17 »

throwawaysea wrote: post #23

Personally although I do see “sexy” titles on Netflix strewn about, it isn’t a big distraction or problem the way this article makes it out to be. The real problem is that most of the content is B tier straight to video content. I’m drowning in choices and I don’t mean within Netflix but elsewhere - I’m simply not compelled to spend my valuable minutes there and these days I rarely load their app. I’ll probably end u…

I feel the same. I think their content is a sea of mediocrity.

I cancelled my sub and I make do with Amazon Prime which is not much better but does have some good exclusives and obviously the shipping benefits.

I’m also considering a return to piracy with a NAS since a lot of movies (esp. classics) are simply unavailable anywhere, even pay-per-view services like Amazon, Apple or Google.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#84

Post by Semaphor »

dannyr wrote: post #30

YouTube is pretty much like this but it's the creators selecting the thumbnails. The most common thumbnail I see is a picture of someone looks like they are blown away with their hands on their head and their mouth wide open.

The Clickbait remover chooses a random thumbnail instead. I rarely go to youtube, but when I do, this makes it more bearable.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/clickbait-rem...

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#85

Post by roystonvassey »

kofejnik wrote: post #76
roystonvassey wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting insights. Online Analytics is now really nuanced - you need to know what metrics are important for * your * business, not just use boilerplate kpis. For instance, an e-commerce website is clearly looking to lead the user to a lot purchase and the more they purchase, it’s good for the business so kpis around sales conversion help and recommenders help your business increase sales. For Netflix though, the u…

They don’t want you to watch obscure shows, they want you to watch the top ones (in your region!) as they are preloaded into your cdn already.

Right - but why would they assume I want to watch the "top" show? I've already paid for it and they benefit by having me browse and allowing myself to find that I like right? And what I like is not necessarily what they think others might me like - what one watches is highly variable (can change day to day, even time of the day) and influenced by so many factors that are personal.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#86

Post by verve_rat »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #74
tomnipotent wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The data/engineering/product loops at tech companies favor boosting short-term metrics I think this hits the nail on the head. Leadership is hard, and executives can be many layers removed from the frontline. It seems that A/B tests and family have proven a really effective vehicle to communicate across leadership levels what has happened, why it happened, and the impact it had on the business. I'm definitely guilt…

How might a streaming service be designed to increase user happiness and wellbeing? From a positive design perspective, could certain streaming features give users a greater sense of purpose or goal accomplishment (e.g., mastering a genre) or help users meaningfully connect to others (e.g., seeing what friends have recommended lately)? While measuring the effects of a feature on wellbeing outcomes is substantially ha…

Maybe... make good shows?

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#87

Post by Aissen »

Dan just outed himself as sensible to this kind of clickbait: indeed, the Netflix homepage is different for everyone. Try to have a look at your friends or partner's homepage, it's pretty interesting.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#88

Post by christoph »

kmmlng wrote: post #64
pizza234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opposite opinion. They're executing their vision perfectly. Netflix is very aggressively pursuing the bottom line, and they're not doing it differently from a drug dealer. It's not random that the term "Netflix binge" exists. Netflix interface is designed to shove content at the users' face at all costs, and in a very disrespectful way. Here there are some disgusting dark patterns: - it took them a long ti…

So they are taking steps which are ostensibly geared towards this drug dealer vision. But is it working? I can only look at myself and the people around me. There was a time when we would go on Netflix binges and there probably was something drug-like about it. But now? I go on Netflix, I scroll around for a bit, can't find anything I would like to watch, and I close Netflix again. The only reason I'm still paying fo…

I’m in total agreement. Opening the Netflix app just started making me frustrated trying to find something to watch, so I just don’t bother anymore. I will only open it now if somebody has recommended something to me, which happens rarely these days. We’ve only kept the subscription going as our child likes watching some of the shows on Netflix kids.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#89

Post by Fiahil »

personjerry wrote: post #7

I worked at Facebook for some time, and did a bunch of data work. We had this culture of building something, looking at the results between the experiment groups, and then choosing the statistically more successful one -- i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. This sounds great at first, and certainly is straightforward if you want a promotion. But behind the scenes some of us had this thought that our…

I think you can maintain the feedback loop without degrading the user experience if you actually ask them what they want to be shown.

The problem lies in that "engagement" definition : if the user clicked on a thumb, then they must have been attracted to it. In reality, there is considerably more explanation for that click : They could be looking for a specific title, mistakenly thought _this_ actor was playing in the movie, clicked on it to reset the search, wondered if this was a show or a film, missclicked, just picked the least annoying in an ocean of shitty propositions... An algorithm alone can never find its way for better suggestions if it lacks _intent_. The outcome of this lack of data and the lack of data scientists' imagination, will always be stuck in a local minima.

So, what solution do you have to gather this precious intent and act on it ? Well, you start small on predictable things : "what would you recommend to Agatha if they liked _Expendables_ ?" "Is _RED_ a good addition to the list if I'm looking for Action/Comedy films ?"

And later "Are you looking for Action/Comedy films ? here is some proposals"

It works the same for different approaches, for picking thumbnails, or promoting movies. Just ask user for what's motivate them. If Netflix had asked me last week, I would have told them their catalog is getting worse and worse so we prefer using disney+ instead.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#90

Post by ggm »

arcturus17 wrote: post #79
ggm wrote: post #35

If I search for "streetcar named desire" I want a finder which says "nope, but here's the other work by {Elia Kazan, Tenesee Williams, Marlon Brando, Carl Malden, Jessica Tandy, Kim Hunter} Oddly, I don't want "here's the abortive experimental 1970s film shot in Russia by a drug crazed student also called "streetcar" But.. from Netflix's PoV, its equally likely I did want that because they know I watch e.g. Luis Bune…

I do get a lot results that way on Netflix on failed searches… It doesn’t present only lexically similar results (“streetcar”) but thematically related films (classics, of the same era and related directors or cast) My main issue with Netflix is that where I live their movie catalog (esp. classics), is very short, seemingly in favor of Netflix’s own produced “shovelware”. Also, regarding a search for “the office”, ho…

There are a million nitpicks in the city, this is just one of them.

Netflix and Amazon both have a strong interior belief this smart referral thing is good and who knows: A/B testing may even validate it. I just know that recommendations in books film and music creep me out, maybe it's an analogue of "uncanny valley" but being told "you may also like" kills the mood for me. Dammit, I want to like what I like, not what statistics thinks I may like.

"The office" thing, yes, that's the whole point: ask me Tuesday and I might say yes. Ask me Monday and Sunday, I might cancel my subscription. I talk about this with a lot of people and book and film recommendations are toxic to friendship. You love STNG? Oh you would love Babylon 5 no, just no.

And I don't think "I'm zany" or anything cute. I think this is a normal reaction and a common reaction. I bet Netflix has never asked "do we creep you out a bit snooping on what you watch and recommending things" that literally.

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