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We Hire Old People

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Re: We Hire Old People

#241

Post by xupybd »

samcheng wrote: post #40
jonplackett wrote: post #5

Define ‘old’. How young counts as old in tech these days?

A recruiter from a prominent SF / Silicon Valley tech headhunting firm once told me that 40 is the cutoff for individual contributors. As a counterpoint, I know plenty of over-40 (and older!) wise software engineers working for places like Google. So maybe the discrimination is worse at someplace like Uber? Personally, I value age diversity on a team, just as I value gender, ethnic, etc. diversity. The added perspect…

I'm only a few years off 40. I have no plans to be anything other than an IC and think I'm much better now than I ever was. Personally I've only seen developers get better with age. Sure some are old and cranky but they are generally correct too.

Re: We Hire Old People

#242

Post by ccleve »

candybar wrote: post #231
ccleve wrote: post #30

I wrote the ad. Holy cow, I didn't expect to be #1 on Hacker News. Will answer any questions. Here's one you might ask: Why? I'm pushing 60 and I've attempted to interview for developer jobs over the last year. Got nowhere despite 40 years of experience. Getting really, really tired of this industry's attitude toward people like me. Based on questions below, I'll give a bit more. Earlier this year I had a personal re…

You're a borderline public figure in politics and your role in politics seems to have been your primary occupation over the past few years. Does that ever come up in your conversations with tech recruiters? Given these specifics, I'm not sure if your experience generalizes to other old engineers, though I'm sure ageism is a problem for older engineers in our industry.

No one has mentioned it, although it may well be a factor.

I think it's not so much the politics as it is that people see other interests and don't know what to do with them. It's as if having done additional things during your life somehow dilutes the main things.

Re: We Hire Old People

#243

Post by ccleve »

samstave wrote: post #157
ccleve wrote: post #30

I wrote the ad. Holy cow, I didn't expect to be #1 on Hacker News. Will answer any questions. Here's one you might ask: Why? I'm pushing 60 and I've attempted to interview for developer jobs over the last year. Got nowhere despite 40 years of experience. Getting really, really tired of this industry's attitude toward people like me. Based on questions below, I'll give a bit more. Earlier this year I had a personal re…

Annecdote: When I interviewed with Twitter in ~2008/09 the manager asked me about what I thought about my previous experience (I was already ~15 years into my career).. and how it would apply at Twitter I replied: "I've done a lot of neat things in my career, but I love to learn new things and I always hate it when one says "well the way we did it here was such-and-such, thus that must be the correct way" and he lite…

I wish I could hire non-technicals. The problem is that the product is only partially built. No product means no need for anything other than product at this point.

Re: We Hire Old People

#244

Post by topkai22 »

api wrote: post #90
cjohnson318 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at an electric autonomous car company in the Bay Area (not that one) that was crawling with 22 year olds slinging code every which way. Periodically a bug emerge that the younger generation couldn't get their head around. Invariably one of the older guys (in his 50's or 60's) would spend an afternoon looking at it, fix it, and then yell at all the kids in the room. I was somewhere between the two age groups…

I've seen this too, and I really wonder why there is such an age bias toward straight out of college kids. Having some is fine but the whole industry seems heavily biased in that direction. I suspect it's rooted in the historic youth of computer aficionados back during the early-mid PC era in the 1970s and 1980s, and a cargo cult idea that youth was the ingredient that made this stuff happen. Instead it was the other…

Part of it is just demographics- there are just massively more people getting trained in CS/programming then they are old timers out there. I graduated a decade and a half ago and the size of the computer science department has tripled.

Then there really is a tendancy of software engineers to exit the profession in the 35-45 time frame. I actually ran data from the bureau of labor statistics and found that effect to be true- the number of 35-45 year old programmers/software engineers in 2010 was noticeable large than the number of 45-55 year old programmers in 2020.*

Those things combined make software developers still trend very young.

* Yes, they may be dropping out due to ageism, but I also suspect that many burn out and move to adjacent roles. Ageism and barriers to entry are more interesting in explaining on why we don't see more older people entering the profession

Re: We Hire Old People

#245

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

goatlover wrote: post #239
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thread is about the hiring process; not working. I wouldn't stay at a job for fifteen minutes, if I was treated in the way that some of these interviewers behave. One big one, is the assumption that applicants are supplicants . The constant attitude that the corporation is the "Dom" in the relationship, and that they are doing us a big favor, by offering us a chance to beg for the job. Other things are obv…

Some of that sounds worthy of a lawsuit. I guess it’s not worth the trouble for most potential hires.

Yup, and they know it. Ageism is totally supported, in tech. Companies run ads that basically say "Bros only."

Good way to get yourself blackballed. I wouldn't even mention it now, if I were looking for work.

Re: We Hire Old People

#247

Post by didntknowya »

ccleve wrote: post #30

I wrote the ad. Holy cow, I didn't expect to be #1 on Hacker News. Will answer any questions. Here's one you might ask: Why? I'm pushing 60 and I've attempted to interview for developer jobs over the last year. Got nowhere despite 40 years of experience. Getting really, really tired of this industry's attitude toward people like me. Based on questions below, I'll give a bit more. Earlier this year I had a personal re…

we've hired and got many older people working with us (55+). the main reluctance of hiring them is many are inflexible and stuck in their ways. sure they have 20+ years experience but many don't bother to update themselves on new methodology and advances and still expect a significantly higher pay. the ones that do like to learn are definitely an asset with their life experience too and get along well in a diverse team.

Re: We Hire Old People

#248

Post by mixmastamyk »

pengaru wrote: post #216
irrational wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have far fewer obligations in my 50s than I did in my 30s. Kids are gone, I’m happily married and not in the dating scene, I am settled in a home. Other than work and hanging out with my wife, I don’t have anything else going on. But back when I was dating and then had young kids and then even older kids (with all of their activities) I had a ton more obligations outside of work. It started going down in my mid 40s…

Allow me to count the number of over 50 year olds I crossed paths with while burning the midnight oil Getting Shit Done crunching at the office... The only time those offices had lights on after hours were when the cleaning people occupied them. My assumption has been even after the nest empties these folks have better things to do like relaxing in their preferred home(s), eating their preferred meals, sleeping in th…

Yes, and likely got things done before leaving for the day.

Re: We Hire Old People

#249

Post by quantified »

webmaven wrote: post #194
quantified wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and yet for the experienced devs that make fewer mistakes and things that can be iterated on more easily, they get the same amount done in less than 60 hours. Also, once the dev's kids are in college, their time frees up tremendously. I'm not sure that's recognized.

Yeah, but you aren't allowed to ask about a candidate's marital or parental status, and age (at the crude not-a-20-something level) is usually apparent without having to ask.

Yep, true. Having a resume that stretches back to when the recruiter was watching Teletubbies makes it super apparent.

Re: We Hire Old People

#250

Post by nicwolff »

ccleve wrote: post #30

I wrote the ad. Holy cow, I didn't expect to be #1 on Hacker News. Will answer any questions. Here's one you might ask: Why? I'm pushing 60 and I've attempted to interview for developer jobs over the last year. Got nowhere despite 40 years of experience. Getting really, really tired of this industry's attitude toward people like me. Based on questions below, I'll give a bit more. Earlier this year I had a personal re…

I'm a 55-year-old Systems Architect at a big media company where I am a highly-valued senior engineer. But a few years ago I too had a personal referral into Facebook for a developer position, and I was invited in for the tech assessment, so I figured, why not see what the process is like, and how resistible the offer is? I pseudocoded simple algorithms on a whiteboard for a 25-year-old for an hour or so, and then never heard from them again. I don't really care, but yeah, it does rankle.
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