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Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

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Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#181

AirBnB never should have set up such an unsafe system, but surely the decisions of the renters are at fault as well. I personally would never even consider allowing people who were not carefully screened by myself to have free reign with my property. I'm pretty sure this is getting large enough to garner the attention of politicians. That may be a positive thing, since AirBnB and their clients are apparently not taki…

Given that most apartments already have no subletting clauses, I don't think additional regulation would help anything. I'm hoping this dies down before some politician tries to make some knee-jerk law, much like that state AG did with craigslist awhile back.

I have to agree, actually. The government being involved should be a last resort, and there's no indication this is a truly widespread or dangerous issue currently. Ideally, the private parties involved will figure it out.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#182

AirBnB never should have set up such an unsafe system, but surely the decisions of the renters are at fault as well. I personally would never even consider allowing people who were not carefully screened by myself to have free reign with my property. I'm pretty sure this is getting large enough to garner the attention of politicians. That may be a positive thing, since AirBnB and their clients are apparently not taki…

My take is the #1 fault is the alledged scumbags who did alleged bad things to the host's property. The #2 fault is the hosts for showing such utter naivete and ignorance about (a) what to leave in the apartment, and (b) understanding what could possibly happen when the strangers stay there and accepting those risks as the flip side of the coin. To the extent AirBnB has done anything wrong or imperfect, it's farther…

In my opinion, AirBnB should be providing more of an upfront opportunity for a host to screen a prospective client in advance, with no pressure. If they can't do this, they need to do a very good job of it themselves. That's the crucial aspect of their involvement. From my reading of the EJ story, she had no opportunity to learn anything about her client prior to accepting the reservation. AirBnB has changed this since then, I believe?

Regardless of these incidents, ad-hoc home rental is a potentially dangerous situation for both sides of the deal. It's positive that this controversy has prompted AirBnB to go beyond making jokes about piano thievery, and realize that safety of everyone involved is a critical issue.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#183
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But there's something "off" about EJ's position here. Why is a vandalized apartment leaving her homeless?" Put yourself in the position of a person who has just had their apartment burglarized (remember: they stole her personal documents and valuables) and their keys stolen by probable drug addicts. Also, remember that the police have arrested one of the vandals, but probably not all of them. Ignoring, for the momen…

A home is invaded; robbed. Personal property is destroyed or stolen in the process. This happens everyday. Homes are cased, the victims watched, their habits noted. Ultimately they're broken into. In some instances criminals look for homes where the victims appear to be on vacation and set up labs. What do rational individuals do? They call the police, they change the locks, and they carry on with their lives. The di…

I think you glossed over quite a few points:

1) EJ specifically points out that there was no way to perform due diligence on the other person. You are inviting someone to use your home, and you normally expect some entity to perform some sort of check on the renter. Craigslist clearly warns people about this, and gives them a good way to contact (via email, even if its obfuscated). AirBNB, for better or worse, hinders people's ability to do this. There's an implication (and I fully agree, having gone through the site myself) that the site is safe, that renters are safe, and that hosts are safe. In that circumstance, EJ is justified in feeling misleaded by ABNB.

2) There's a simple way to fix the situation: provide restitution, recognize fault, and help find (and possibly pay for) a new flat for EJ. They can't repair the emotional damage, but they can at least show that they care about the situation.

3) This robbery is far different from most robberies. In some simple break-in, robbers grab the most expensive items they can find and move on. Rarely do robbers go to the extent of systematically stealing everything in the house.

I think this entire situation would have blown over if Airbnb just apologized at the onset. A simple "we are sorry" or hotline with a person that could talk EJ down immediately would have sufficed. EJ would have felt that there were people in ABNB.

Have you ever had to make an insurance claim or credit card fraud claim? American Express is great about CC fraud, suspending all fraudulent purchases immediately. And with home insurance, one day a tree fell on the house. Called insurance company and I was speaking to an agent within a few seconds, who calmed me down and walked me through the entire process (from getting a hotel to calling police). In both cases, great customer service people make sure that customers are calmed down first. And it was only because they promptly responded that I didnt feel any sort of misanthropic dispair.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#184
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the one drawing the lines here, not 'cletus. The comment you're responding to goes out of its way to attribute possible fault to Airbnb and is comparatively ginger about what "EJ" (or, far more likely, the legal representation "EJ" has almost certainly acquired by now) may be doing tactically. I don't have a strong opinion about this story, except that the "red team / blue team" mentality commenters have about…

i don't understand what else to her story really needs to be said, unless it was orchestrated (if thats what you're implying). All that matters is she used the service and her house got trashed. Airbnb never had a safety page until her story and never made people aware of the dangers. People need to be educated of what can happen when you let strangers into your house, when using a service like this.

"People need to be educated..."

This is the kind of thing you learn from your parents. It's not some corporation's job to do that. If I'm renting a room in my house, I'm not leaving this stranger alone in my home. If it's an apartment over the garage with only outside access, I'm less concerned, but I'll still keep my valuables in a safe.

There is a certain amount of common sense one must have to function in this world. Putting "stranger danger" education under the responsibility of AirBnB is unacceptable.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're right, it hasn't stopped them, "classifieds" have largely been eroded by things like Craigslist, which do allow you to do a bit of research and contact on your own. They don't prevent it. And I typically am not paying for the privilege of meeting my ransacker/assailant. What's more, CL (and others) actively try to scare you with warnings about how not to get scammed and such. ABNB doesn't seem to take th…

I know the father of one young person who was murdered after responding to a Craigslist ad looking for a babysitter. http://www.startribune.com/local/south/41701952.html?elr=KAr... (I met him after his daughter's murder.) The Craigslist founder Craig himself was involved in responding directly to that incident and appeared in public at a memorial event for the murder victim. http://www.startribune.com/local/west/4427…

"These days, Craigslist has a lot of warnings about dangerous transactions, and for Airbnb to NOT have had similar warnings until last week suggests its lawyers weren't on the ball about what a reasonable standard of care is for being a third party arranging room rental transactions among strangers."

It's still not similar.

How many people are going to really find that safety page? Compare this with Craigslist which has safety links on the search results and on the post.

And Craigslist doesn't take commission from transactions, so it's not really the same boat at all.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#186

Just in case anyone's curious, CouchSurfing has been around a bit longer than AirBnb and they have their own safety tips and tools: http://www.couchsurfing.org/safety.html Here's the AirBnb page about safety: http://www.airbnb.com/home/safety CouchSurfing is similar in that it's about strangers staying at people's places. The biggest difference is that people let others stay at their houses for free. Usually both par…

The difference is that CouchSurfing has a giant button on the homepage that says, "is this safe?" that links to the safety page. It's also linked from the main nav.

Airbnb has the safety page linked from the footer.

Guess which one is going to get more clicks.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? "Fishy"? Please stop talking like that. Neither Airbnb nor "EJ" owes us the complete objective retelling of exactly what has transpired between them. When "EJ" doesn't recount absolutely every fact that isn't completely favorable to her cause of action, that doesn't make her a crook. She isn't on trial, and you aren't a jury.

But the result is that Airbnb is taking a PR beating. So if EJ is intentionally misconstruing the facts (or Airbnb for that matter) it is important and relevant. Look, I'm not saying they [Airbnb] are doing everything right. But at the same time, the renters have got to take on some responsibility for handing out their keys to strangers; yes that's what you're doing, is that a surprise? This isn't all on EJ or all on…

>But at the same time, the renters have got to take on some responsibility for handing out their keys to strangers; yes that's what you're doing, is that a surprise?

It's a good point but if AirBnb can't take measures to mitigate these horror scenarios and all the onus is on renters, then they can kiss their stratospheric valuation goodbye. Who's going to want to participate in this service with even a 0.01% chance that they will sustain $1000s in damages? The risk wouldn't be worth it.

Much like Ebay took measures against cheaters, AirBnb should create measures in case of nightmare renters (valid ID, credit card, etc).

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#188
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had that exact situation happen to me (a burglary), neither my wife nor I acted anything like this. And yes, I understand that everyone reacts differently to these situations, but she seems like she seriously needs some professional help (which I would argue also is ok; different folks, different needs), that she is willfully NOT GETTING, but rather airing emotionally-laden tidbits for the masses to consume as…

I think this obviously different from your garden variety burglary. For one, I think the owner is questioning both her ability to make good judgments as well as trust other people and services. This is in addition to the helpless feeling of being burgled.

[deleted]

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#189
post #152

There is a deep ethical problem with starting or funding airbnb, in my opinion: The fraction of people with enough sophistication and resources to be good, safe, hosts and guests is a tiny, tiny fraction of the people in the world. It is absurd to think that airbnb could ever scale to justify its investments if only those sophisticated users were customers. The model relies, therefore, on large numbers of hosts and g…

What about all of the good that AirBnB does for the large majority of people who use the site? Is there a deep ethical problem with letting people supplement their income, while also letting travellers have a cheaper option for a night/weeks stay? The vast majority of people who use AirBnb benefit from it.

AirBnB facilitates a set of behaviors that's almost never covered by normal homeowner/renters policies, along with being illegal in some places and against most rental contracts.

The only people who benefit are the guests, as any host who isn't using AirBnB to fill a rental property they already owned is taking on an incredible amount of personal liability for a relatively trivial sum of money (compared to the uninsured costs if something goes wrong).

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#190

I'm realizing I'm confused about what value airbnb is offering. If they don't vet people on either end, are they really just a craigslist with payment processing?

I never thought that they did anything other than hold money in escrow. I would think this is by far the biggest problem with classifieds (by frequency, at least). The social/reputation system adds some trust, but they never even remotely gave the me impression that they were vetting anything.

And what is the problem with that? Some comments seem to be suggestion that - because that evil money thing is involved - they should be required to be in other businesses simultaneously. Perhaps there are things they can do better, but existing system was already quite clear to me (renter; would have to think seriously before hosting).

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