We Hire Old People • Hacker News Board

Re: We Hire Old People

#71

Post by Mattiusly » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

ccleve wrote: post #30

I wrote the ad. Holy cow, I didn't expect to be #1 on Hacker News. Will answer any questions. Here's one you might ask: Why? I'm pushing 60 and I've attempted to interview for developer jobs over the last year. Got nowhere despite 40 years of experience. Getting really, really tired of this industry's attitude toward people like me. Based on questions below, I'll give a bit more. Earlier this year I had a personal re…

Agism is so bad in this industry. Thanks for writing that ad, it's brilliantly worded!

Re: We Hire Old People

#72

Post by amatecha » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

zarkov99 wrote: post #54

As what some would call an old person (~50), I love this. There is so much knowledge in old workers. Not all is relevant, sure, but there is so much that is timeless stuff that every young Engineer will learn, sooner or later, though varying degrees of suffering. If we could put away arrogance (from both young and old) we could do so much to advance the field.

Oh yeah, I absolutely love talking with the oldest possible people I work with. I'm not being sarcastic or anything. The older colleagues always have unbelievably awesome insight and interesting stories, and really wise advice. In a purely selfish way I'm always disappointed when someone retires because I know what kind of knowledge and wisdom is walking out the door. I always hope to be this type of person for those around me, sharing knowledge/experience to those who are up-and-coming in the career/industry. :)

Re: We Hire Old People

#73

Post by yupper32 » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

samcheng wrote: post #40

jonplackett wrote: post #5

Define ‘old’. How young counts as old in tech these days?

A recruiter from a prominent SF / Silicon Valley tech headhunting firm once told me that 40 is the cutoff for individual contributors. As a counterpoint, I know plenty of over-40 (and older!) wise software engineers working for places like Google. So maybe the discrimination is worse at someplace like Uber? Personally, I value age diversity on a team, just as I value gender, ethnic, etc. diversity. The added perspect…

> A recruiter from a prominent SF / Silicon Valley tech headhunting firm once told me that 40 is the cutoff for individual contributors.

That fits perfectly because 40 is when age discrimination becomes illegal: https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination

You should report that headhunting firm.

Re: We Hire Old People

#74

Post by 908B64B197 » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #49

dewey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clickbait basically. Not really, The "We Hire Old People" was just something the HN submitter picked. It's not the title of the original job posting.

The HN submitter appears to be affiliated with the company, though, and the text here does seem chosen in an editorial way in order to drive engagement. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28304777

That's not really a surprise.

YC companies can post job adds here, others can't. So you have to be clickbaity to get your add on the front page. And it's a pretty good place to post an add, signal to noise ratio wise.

Re: We Hire Old People

#75

Post by sahillavingia » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

gravypod wrote: post #4

> The hiring process is in the form of a paid, short-term consulting gig that will lead to a full-time offer if we like you and you like us. We'll give you some tasks, you'll get them done, and then we'll talk. No need to quit your day job to do this gig; we'll work around your schedule. Interesting. I look forward to hearing if this works out long term. I'd be worried about legal implications of something like this…

We do this at Gumroad. Works great; will never go back.

Re: We Hire Old People

#76

Post by cjohnson318 » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

ccleve wrote: post #30

I wrote the ad. Holy cow, I didn't expect to be #1 on Hacker News. Will answer any questions. Here's one you might ask: Why? I'm pushing 60 and I've attempted to interview for developer jobs over the last year. Got nowhere despite 40 years of experience. Getting really, really tired of this industry's attitude toward people like me. Based on questions below, I'll give a bit more. Earlier this year I had a personal re…

I worked at an electric autonomous car company in the Bay Area (not that one) that was crawling with 22 year olds slinging code every which way. Periodically a bug emerge that the younger generation couldn't get their head around. Invariably one of the older guys (in his 50's or 60's) would spend an afternoon looking at it, fix it, and then yell at all the kids in the room. I was somewhere between the two age groups and it was hilarious to watch.

Re: We Hire Old People

#77

Post by bee_rider » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

ajay-b wrote: post #29

I want more companies to follow this. Age is a good thing in most industries, maybe all. I think silicon valley’s stock market drove it towards a “younger is cheaper and will work for free lunch” and that pushed our elders out.

Or that programmers who'd rather focus on things like "minimum viable products" and "just get something down" rather than "designing maintainable systems" and "avoiding sources of tech debt" skew young/inexperienced.

Re: We Hire Old People

#78

Post by frankbreetz » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #51

Admirable, but in practice this is tough. We have always been age-agnostic and all our engineering hires are remote. I don’t explicitly ask, but can get a sense of how old someone is in the phone call portion of interview. My takeaway from doing hundreds of these interviews is that even after correcting for experience levels, age correlates with inflated expectations: salary, paid vacation, benefits, etc. This alone…

This seems strange to me, it seems these people would continue adjusting salary and benefits exceptions downward until they found a job, or they would find a company that is paying what they are looking for. I know it is a lucrative field, but is every software developer 40+ financially established enough to be that picky?

Side note: paid vacations seem like pretty low exceptions, maybe you are taking advantage of inexperienced developers, maybe you meant amount they expect too much time off.

Re: We Hire Old People

#79

Post by Mattiusly » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

ccleve wrote: post #48

MattGaiser wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it that happens? Do you get to the interview and then they see your grey hair and treat you like Grandpa? Do they just not call you for an interview at all? Is it the leetcode and focus on the specifics of very new and flashy tech that is the problem?

Don't even get to the interview stage. My tech skills never got assessed.

Same with me. I'm to the point that I'm going to create an alternate resume that only lists experience of less than 8 years, instead of 30+, and use a very old photo of myself on socials.

Re: We Hire Old People

#80

Post by krumpet » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

ccleve wrote: post #30

I wrote the ad. Holy cow, I didn't expect to be #1 on Hacker News. Will answer any questions. Here's one you might ask: Why? I'm pushing 60 and I've attempted to interview for developer jobs over the last year. Got nowhere despite 40 years of experience. Getting really, really tired of this industry's attitude toward people like me. Based on questions below, I'll give a bit more. Earlier this year I had a personal re…

I'm 47 and strongly considering jumping from marketing to front-end dev. I have experience with development so I'm not starting from scratch, but I'm definitely not a pro level developer. I'm fine with a drop in salary, but your comment sure worries me about finding ANY job.

That being said, it has been my dream to be a developer for years. I even studied Math, CS and Mech Eng in college. But, sometimes life takes you in unexpected directions. No gain with no risk, I guess...