CDC: Covid vaccine effectiveness fell from 91% to 66% with Delta variant • Hacker News Board

Re: CDC: Covid vaccine effectiveness fell from 91% to 66% with Delta variant

#31

Post by zeku » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

angelzen wrote: post #27

zeku wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last medical paper I read was using a cohort of 20,000 people. This paper concluded that natural covid immunity doesn't last forever. Median time to reinfection was 160+ days. Is there new research or something? I keep seeing people talk about this and no one ever provides a source. source: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.13.21249642v... Additionally here's a bunch of data that makes me doubt your poi…

Appreciate your effort to link to sources. We fundamentally suffer from lack of data: what are the morbidity and mortality by age group, by comorbidity (obesity and diabetes), by unvax / unvax + covid / vax? Furthermore, being 'published' on medrxiv is not a guarantee for accuracy or reproducibility. Cue in the Ivermectin saga... I wish CDC would actually collect basic epidemiological data, but it seems completely di…

Sure apologies for linking a preprint.

The study I linked earlier went on to be published in Lancet which is a super top tier medical journal. Here is the link: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Also I find that the NHS over in England collects great data and personally I use them as a primary learning body for covid.

Re: CDC: Covid vaccine effectiveness fell from 91% to 66% with Delta variant

#32

Post by angelzen » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

zeku wrote: post #31

angelzen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate your effort to link to sources. We fundamentally suffer from lack of data: what are the morbidity and mortality by age group, by comorbidity (obesity and diabetes), by unvax / unvax + covid / vax? Furthermore, being 'published' on medrxiv is not a guarantee for accuracy or reproducibility. Cue in the Ivermectin saga... I wish CDC would actually collect basic epidemiological data, but it seems completely di…

Sure apologies for linking a preprint. The study I linked earlier went on to be published in Lancet which is a super top tier medical journal. Here is the link: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... Also I find that the NHS over in England collects great data and personally I use them as a primary learning body for covid.

Thank you!

Re: CDC: Covid vaccine effectiveness fell from 91% to 66% with Delta variant

#33

Post by criticaltinker » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

zeku wrote: post #28

zeku wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like we responded to him in basically the same way at the same time. I had a check of his profile and he has a comment claiming that: " hattmall 16 days ago | parent [–] | on: Big Tech are supposed to be the plumbers, not patr... All evidence shows it to be the other way around, the vaccinated are far more dangerous to the unvaccinated than vice versa, it isn't even close. Leaky vaccines create more virulent an…

It won't let me reply to this "criticalthinker" guy anymore, but I will post this for anyone looking at this before they get sucked into these purposeful lies. Just go read what he linked me to supposedly support his argument: [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ This paper states that covid will mutate due to "neutral variation" and evade the vaccine. This isn't a point against the vaccine, this is just sta…

So I say "The threat of vaccine resistance is real and acknowledged by many experts" and provide citations to support this claim - then you reply:

> This isn't a point against the vaccine [...] and doesn't support the anti vax argument

You're attacking a straw man with an overly simplistic reductionist interpretation. I'm not "against the vaccine", but clearly your bias here is to defend vaccination and disregard any nuanced criticisms from experts at top institutions as "anti-vax".

I won't continue to discuss this with you because it's obvious you don't intend to cultivate an informed discussion.

Re: CDC: Covid vaccine effectiveness fell from 91% to 66% with Delta variant

#34

Post by nradov » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

SnowProblem wrote: post #29

In the FDA's press release yesterday [1], they justified Pfizer approval by saying the vaccine had a 91% effectiveness. But everyone knows that number is no longer true - the data was from March, before Delta. If the FDA were acting responsibly and credibly, they would have used the latest data, but then approval doesn't look so favorable. It's probably relevant that Pfizer spent over $200M lobbying politicians over…

Approval of a vaccine isn't contingent on a specific percentage effectiveness. Less effective drugs are approved all the time as long as the health benefits outweigh the risks and side effects.

Re: CDC: Covid vaccine effectiveness fell from 91% to 66% with Delta variant

#35

Post by AndrewBissell » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

zeku wrote: post #24

AndrewBissell wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in your link supports the claim "we know the vaccine improves survival regardless of previous infections." > It doesn't matter in countries like the US where the vaccine is free to anyone who wants it How about the medical bills for a life-altering adverse event? Are those free for anyone who has to pay them? These considerations matter when we're talking about administering a vaccine which may provide very s…

Link the study or delete your comment.

Here you go. Wonder what a third dose will do!

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.22.436441v1

Re: CDC: Covid vaccine effectiveness fell from 91% to 66% with Delta variant

#36

Post by peteradio » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

zeku wrote: post #20

hattmall wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless they lockdown forever it's literally not going to matter. Additionally the longer they delay the acquisition of natural immunity the worse it will eventually be. The best course of action in the begining would have been to encourage only the vulnerable to isolate. Natural immunity is much better than the vaccines. COVID currently is worse for vaccinated people than it was for unvaccinated a year ago. The rate…

Last medical paper I read was using a cohort of 20,000 people. This paper concluded that natural covid immunity doesn't last forever. Median time to reinfection was 160+ days. Is there new research or something? I keep seeing people talk about this and no one ever provides a source. source: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.13.21249642v... Additionally here's a bunch of data that makes me doubt your poi…

Please tell me if my understanding is incorrect, I assert ....

That 160+ days seems to come entirely from the study window itself and I don't see how it would give an indication of general immunity of the study cohorts. If you wait longer as more people wind up infected that number only goes up.

To provide some additional context from the linked study, only 5.7 per 100,000 people were reinfected during the study window while 57.3 per 100,000 were infected for the first time. To put it into vaccine effectiveness terms that is a 90% effective. I didn't read to see if the cohorts were demographic matched.

If I'm understanding it correctly, then I think you misrepresent that 160 number.

Re: CDC: Covid vaccine effectiveness fell from 91% to 66% with Delta variant

#37

Post by angelzen » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 11:59 PM UTC

criticaltinker wrote: post #26

zeku wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like we responded to him in basically the same way at the same time. I had a check of his profile and he has a comment claiming that: " hattmall 16 days ago | parent [–] | on: Big Tech are supposed to be the plumbers, not patr... All evidence shows it to be the other way around, the vaccinated are far more dangerous to the unvaccinated than vice versa, it isn't even close. Leaky vaccines create more virulent an…

> he is just an antivaxxer spreading unscientific lies No need for ad hominem rebuttals here. The threat of vaccine resistance is real and acknowledged by many experts [1][2], but I agree he is not doing these ideas justice by making such simple and unbalanced comments without citing any primary sources. [1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pub…

Recently in the news: "Pfizer CEO Dr. Albert Bourla says that a vaccine-resistant COVID variant will “likely” emerge.", while touting that his company can design a new vaccine in 95 days when the dreaded variant arises.

https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronav...