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S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

reuters.com

61–70 of 114 posts

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#61
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that there's a vocal minority (looks around here) and the vast majority of people couldn't give a shit less. Not once in my life has my dad, my grandma, or some random friend I met up with at a bar gone "jeez, Apple and Google sure do have a monopoly on pricing in their respective app stores and this harms me as a consumer". Nobody cares. In fact, most people probably think everything is amazing how it…

You should read upon the woman who brought down Standard Oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Tarbell#Standard_Oil It was basically a person that took on the largest monopoly in the world, and won. What we have today is a significantly larger momentum against tech monopolies. Look at some of the practices that brought the case forward: "An office boy working at the Standard Oil headquarters was given the job of dest…

> You should read upon the woman who brought down Standard Oil ... It was basically a person that took on the largest monopoly in the world, and won.

She lost, she didn't win. Tarbell's confrontation with Rockefeller & Standard Oil and the legal actions of the authorities did the exact opposite of taking down Standard Oil. Standard Oil became even larger and more powerful. JD Rockefeller's family got far richer afterward. The Standard split itself into a more potent back-office interconnection of separate state chartered monopolies. No longer was there one monopoly controlled by Rockefeller, but numerous, all operating in concert as an oligopoly behind the scenes. The strings continued to be pulled by the Rockefellers just the same (which you can read about in eg Titan by Ron Chernow). It's the Sorcerer's Apprentice outcome that people were so afraid of in the Microsoft anti-trust trial. Tarbell accomplished very little other than some harm to Rockfeller's reputation by exposing a few corners of that empire.

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#62
post #31
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Hardware' probably

Ah. Agreed. Then let's solve the problem of printers altogether. Why let them enforce the use of only certain ink refills? Surely that also is monopolistic behaviour? In markets in SE Asia, I've seen people still use older Canon models because it allows them to fill their ink cartridges and beat the cost of having to buy official ink cartridges. Those printer still work well afterwards. A business I once consulted fo…

If the ftc had teeth it would be good for it to a enforce restraint of trade laws against hardware lock-in like this.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#63
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clear the days of this oligopoly operating unchallanged are numbered. I dont know a single person outside of the SV bubble who is buying 'mah free market!' argument so prevalent here.

> I dont know a single person outside of the SV bubble who is buying 'mah free market!' argument so prevalent here. Most of the arguments I've seen here, that you are probably classifying under this aspersion, are probably some variant on: - This doesn't look illegal under current (US) laws - New laws to restrict this are hard to write constitutionally (in the US) - If this happens a lot of the good parts of the ecos…

Isn't that the point of laws and governments? That if enough people think something is bad or unfair, but is not currently illegal, then you introduce new laws to make it illegal?

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#65

What about Steam? They control 90% of PC gaming and even charge regressive commissions, with higher rates for smaller developers.

Steam has competition - Epic Game Store, Windows, or direct distribution. It is a lot more feasible for a consumer to switch between these stores, so there can be an effective market that choses which service to use.

This does not exist for iOS because there's no other stores on the platform, and you cannot "just" switch to another the Play Store.

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#66
post #48
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they really control 90%? This four year old article puts Steam game sales revenue at 13% of the total PC gaming sales revenue (and 18% of digital sales revenue): https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam-revenue-2017 Couldn't find any newer stats, but surely it hasn't grown from 13% to 90% in just four years?

That article doesn't make sense to me, even (or especially) in 2017. It sounds like it's conflating IAP (which doesn't have to go through the Steam store, unlike other platforms) with game purchases, but even that doesn't fully account for it to me. Where's all the rest of the money supposedly going through?

Trying to dig into the sources of that article a little bit, what makes the most sense to me is that the $4.3 billion number is Steam's cut of the sales. If you go for a 3-4× multiplier, then you're looking at somewhere around half the total PC gaming market going to Steam.

Which kind of feels about right: there are other game stores; Ubisoft and Origin are the ones that cater to AAA publishers as well. Not to mention that things like the Microsoft Store could well cater to the surprisingly large casual game market (one of the sources quotes $5.2 billion for "Browser PC Games", which I think is reflective of how big casual games are). And you can find people who publish and distribute games outside of Steam.

So saying that Steam has a dominant but not overwhelming market feels correct. The numbers I see most bandied about are 50-75%, which look to be estimated from very old data from what I see. I'm sure if any competitor to Steam had reason to believe they were larger than Steam, they'd be trumpeting it as loudly as they could.

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#67
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clear the days of this oligopoly operating unchallanged are numbered. I dont know a single person outside of the SV bubble who is buying 'mah free market!' argument so prevalent here.

> I dont know a single person outside of the SV bubble who is buying 'mah free market!' argument so prevalent here. Most of the arguments I've seen here, that you are probably classifying under this aspersion, are probably some variant on: - This doesn't look illegal under current (US) laws - New laws to restrict this are hard to write constitutionally (in the US) - If this happens a lot of the good parts of the ecos…

> - New laws to restrict this are hard to write constitutionally (in the US)

This is obviously not true. The current Borkist interpretation of antitrust is barely 40 years old.

The movement towards "New Brandeis" antitrust philosophy is just going back to old normal with adjustments to new environment.

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#68
If I was Apple or Google I would tell the country they are not in compliance with our operating policies and access to service is being rescinded until legal alignment can be restored.

Let that be a message to any country that tries to mess with the money. The country will riot to get their phones working again.

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#69
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read upon the woman who brought down Standard Oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Tarbell#Standard_Oil It was basically a person that took on the largest monopoly in the world, and won. What we have today is a significantly larger momentum against tech monopolies. Look at some of the practices that brought the case forward: "An office boy working at the Standard Oil headquarters was given the job of dest…

I'm not arguing that all tech companies are or are not monopolies. I think Google and Facebook are specifically candidates for anti-trust regulation. But I don't see it with Apple at all, especially around this App Store issue, and I'm not really convinced that Amazon is either.

50% of Americans use jPhone, and many as their primary computer device.

You can't reach them without paying Apple tax. You can't write software and be done with it - you have to make their arbitrary reviewers happy and wait for releases. No matter what your business is.

They also keep you from forming a relationship with the customer. You don't get an email or anything. You're on their payment rails most of the time, which significantly increases risk.

One press of a button, and your business is obliterated.

Imagine if every car was either Ford or Tesla, and Tesla charged your destinations 30% on everything you do. Every bagel you buy, or every concert you attend.

Margins are tight as it is. Apple makes it substantially harder. Before Apple, people were satisfied with websites and Windows programs. Now everything has to be an App.

Re: S.Korea parliament committee votes to curb Google, Apple commission dominance

#70
post #68

If I was Apple or Google I would tell the country they are not in compliance with our operating policies and access to service is being rescinded until legal alignment can be restored. Let that be a message to any country that tries to mess with the money. The country will riot to get their phones working again.

I can't imagine that sovereign nations like being blackmailed by tech companies, so whilst in the short term this could work it seems like the exact move that would cause the country to go the other way and outright ban Google and Apple products.
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