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How The Hell Is This My Fault?

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Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#301

Post by bfe »

pg wrote: post #274
dhbanes wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this certainly clears it up. To those of you who have been concerned with Airbnb and PG's actions over the past few days... it's just because you're jealous and stupid. Classy, Paul.

It's a kind of stupidity I myself have fallen prey to in the past. One of the things I learned from being one of the earliest users of reddit is how easy it is to let indignation cloud one's judgment. Time after time I'd be led into angrily upvoting some story, only to learn later that things were not at all as they seemed initially. After many years of being faked out, I gradually learned to reserve judgment when my…

That's the crux of it, simply that we should wait for more information before making a rush to judgment, the same reason we have a legal process instead of entering a liability verdict after the first day of media accusations.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#302

Post by jodrellblank »

jacquesm wrote: post #97
kyro wrote: post #95

HN has been pretty disgusting the last few days: the level of schadenfreude here has hit ridiculous new highs. It seems that every time a story breaks about a successful company, a bunch of envious and disgruntled people come out of the woodwork and jump onto the bandwagon headed straight for the founders' heads. A community of seemingly intelligent and rational individuals turns into the most rabid, emotionally-char…

It's 'schadenfreude'. This issue is very emotionally charged because: - everybody that uses AirBNB thought 'this could be me' - everybody that has a sister thinks 'that could be my sister' - everybody that runs a start-up thinks 'this could be a shakedown' (including some preposterous claims about hotel chains putting her up to this) - everybody is wondering if AirBNB is sitting on a huge stack of cash why they didn'…

I think I've seen it suggested on HN that many huge companies got that way with some shady past behaviour. I can't help thinking on that with regard to AirBnB - if they started up demanding full ID, who would use them? Who trusts giving their full ID to a little known company? Nobody. So they start up with a reputation based trust system because that's the only option they have. Now they've got lots of users, big investment, and a horrible event twisting their arm to do something (e.g. requiring ID which they couldn't do before, or spending more on security staff teams which they couldn't afford before), and it might not hurt them much to do so.

Viewed from the future with hindsight, perception shifts to show them as a large company with a shady past "a very insecure system to gain traffic followed by a switchover to a legitimate system".

(This is not the same thing as saying AirBnB planned bad things, it's a musing on how things happen and how things are perceived.).

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#303

Post by jodrellblank »

rexreed wrote: post #145
jacquesm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 'schadenfreude'. This issue is very emotionally charged because: - everybody that uses AirBNB thought 'this could be me' - everybody that has a sister thinks 'that could be my sister' - everybody that runs a start-up thinks 'this could be a shakedown' (including some preposterous claims about hotel chains putting her up to this) - everybody is wondering if AirBNB is sitting on a huge stack of cash why they didn'…

This is probably the most useful comment of the bunch for me personally and my startup - I'm trying to learn from other people's lessons (it's the cheapest way to learn), and I think what you said above really helps. I made the comment elsewhere, but here's what I learned: * Respond quickly * Respond in the open so that there's no he-said / she-said * Be fair, and err on the side of the customer * Don't spin the comp…

Are they really things you learned here that you couldn't mostly have written down before by thinking on "how should a company interact"? They sound pretty ideal, but what when you can't "be fair" and also "err on the side of the customer"?

What when you can't establish a single point of contact because you don't have the resources? What current state of your company will you deprioritize to make that a priority?

What does "don't spin the company line - be thoughtful" mean? If your company line changes as soon as you put thought into it then (a) where did you get it in the first place? and (b) in what way does it represent your company, anyway?

What if it turns out AirBnB believed they did respond quickly, fairly, thoughtfully, got the authorities involved, didn't officially let anyone else speak for them, etc. and this situation still developed because human communication is like that and other people didn't perceive the same intentions in their behaviour as they did?

Did I miss any good lessons here?

You can't please all the people all the time? You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs? No gain without pain? Whatever you plan for won't be the thing which trips you up? The best laid plans of mice and men? Shit happens? It's what you do with it that counts?

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#304

Post by rexreed »

jodrellblank wrote: post #303
rexreed wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably the most useful comment of the bunch for me personally and my startup - I'm trying to learn from other people's lessons (it's the cheapest way to learn), and I think what you said above really helps. I made the comment elsewhere, but here's what I learned: * Respond quickly * Respond in the open so that there's no he-said / she-said * Be fair, and err on the side of the customer * Don't spin the comp…

Are they really things you learned here that you couldn't mostly have written down before by thinking on "how should a company interact"? They sound pretty ideal, but what when you can't "be fair" and also "err on the side of the customer"? What when you can't establish a single point of contact because you don't have the resources? What current state of your company will you deprioritize to make that a priority? Wha…

This was just posted today: http://blog.airbnb.com/our-commitment-to-trust-and-safety

In particular: "With regards to EJ, we let her down, and for that we are very sorry. We should have responded faster, communicated more sensitively, and taken more decisive action to make sure she felt safe and secure. But we weren’t prepared for the crisis and we dropped the ball. Now we’re dealing with the consequences. In working with the San Francisco Police Department, we are happy to say a suspect is now in custody. Even so, we realize that we have disappointed the community. To EJ, and all the other hosts who have had bad experiences, we know you deserve better from us."

Looks like I wasn't so lame after all in taking some lessons learned. If AirBnB can learn some "obvious" lessons from this incident, so can I... and you.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#305

Post by jodrellblank »

rexreed wrote: post #304
jodrellblank wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they really things you learned here that you couldn't mostly have written down before by thinking on "how should a company interact"? They sound pretty ideal, but what when you can't "be fair" and also "err on the side of the customer"? What when you can't establish a single point of contact because you don't have the resources? What current state of your company will you deprioritize to make that a priority? Wha…

This was just posted today: http://blog.airbnb.com/our-commitment-to-trust-and-safety In particular: "With regards to EJ, we let her down, and for that we are very sorry. We should have responded faster, communicated more sensitively, and taken more decisive action to make sure she felt safe and secure. But we weren’t prepared for the crisis and we dropped the ball. Now we’re dealing with the consequences. In working…

I didn't say you were lame or that they were bad points, I was more on the side that (a) you can't always win, (b) if you wait to start until you are sure you can win any situation, you'll be waiting forever.

We're not really thinking that the AirBnB founders, if asked last year, would have said "don't communicate sensitively to a crime victim" or "good customer service means responding slowly" of "don't work with the police", and now they've been hit by this and learned these lessons they know better, are we?

Planning to do everything right first time is a common failure mode and procrastination mode, that's all.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#306

Post by sdfwefsdfe »

pg wrote: post #240
kyro wrote: post #95

HN has been pretty disgusting the last few days: the level of schadenfreude here has hit ridiculous new highs. It seems that every time a story breaks about a successful company, a bunch of envious and disgruntled people come out of the woodwork and jump onto the bandwagon headed straight for the founders' heads. A community of seemingly intelligent and rational individuals turns into the most rabid, emotionally-char…

This is the most intelligent comment I've seen about this whole business. The phenomenon isn't limited to YC companies-- we saw it in e.g. the reaction to Zuckerberg (at 20 or whatever) calling users "dumb fucks" and to Biz and Ev (jokingly) asking if they could cut in the food line at Facebook-- but the problem is at its worst with YC companies because we have to scale back on moderation. When users work themselves…

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Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#307

Post by forensic »

ajays wrote: post #280
forensic wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody lives or works in San Franciso. Silicon Valley is not SF. The Bay Area is this big sprawling suburb that is a pain in the ass to get around in.

Are you kidding me, or just trolling? I live in San Francisco. There are tons of people who live _and_ work in San Francisco. From AirBnB's page: "Airbnb HQ is located in the heart of San Francisco, CA."

Was exaggerating. Point is that SV != SF.
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