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Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

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Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#111

Post by hugh3 »

ig1 wrote: post #80
mgkimsal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're right, it hasn't stopped them, "classifieds" have largely been eroded by things like Craigslist, which do allow you to do a bit of research and contact on your own. They don't prevent it. And I typically am not paying for the privilege of meeting my ransacker/assailant. What's more, CL (and others) actively try to scare you with warnings about how not to get scammed and such. ABNB doesn't seem to take th…

Craigslist is a classified site, and it's had it's share or rapes and killings: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=craigslist%20killing

Though interestingly, there wasn't nearly as much blame heaped on craigslist when this happened as is currently being heaped on airbnb.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#113

Post by pitchups »

There are a few glaring, obvious questions to which I have not seen any answers so far - or maybe I have missed them: Why was it difficult for Airbnb to immediately have the person that trashed the place arrested? Don't they have the person's identity - address, credit card information, phone number, IP address? Don't they run a basic credit check when a person signs up to rent a unit listed on the site? Or at least do some basic identity verification? Or was this person using a stolen identity? Or does Airbnb require that the entire responsibility for this rests on the person renting the place?

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#114

Post by llambda »

timr wrote: post #56
cletus wrote: post #18

As much as some people might view this as "sometimes things go wrong", which is basically true, that's not the whole story. The story here is that people are doing things that in most jurisdictions are illegal. AirBnB is profiting off this. Do something illegal and you can't insure against any negative consequences. The whole EJ situation is a potential inflection point. Without knowing the full facts (which no one s…

"But there's something "off" about EJ's position here. Why is a vandalized apartment leaving her homeless?" Put yourself in the position of a person who has just had their apartment burglarized (remember: they stole her personal documents and valuables) and their keys stolen by probable drug addicts. Also, remember that the police have arrested one of the vandals, but probably not all of them. Ignoring, for the momen…

A home is invaded; robbed. Personal property is destroyed or stolen in the process.

This happens everyday. Homes are cased, the victims watched, their habits noted. Ultimately they're broken into. In some instances criminals look for homes where the victims appear to be on vacation and set up labs.

What do rational individuals do? They call the police, they change the locks, and they carry on with their lives.

The difference here of course is that Airbnb is involved and thus may be obligated (legally or ethically) to provide restitution.

That said, what they cannot do, is fix the victim. They can't repair the damage done to EJ. If that's what she's insisting on, then it's an impossible, irrational goal. That just isn't Airbnb's responsibility.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#115

Post by turar »

The identity theft aspect brings up a whole new concern.

If a renter steals a host's identity without trashing their place, there's no way to know that something went wrong until it's too late.

And if the host subsequently rents her place to other guests, there's no way to know who the identify thief is.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#116

Post by [deleted] »

hugh3 wrote: post #111
ig1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craigslist is a classified site, and it's had it's share or rapes and killings: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=craigslist%20killing

Though interestingly, there wasn't nearly as much blame heaped on craigslist when this happened as is currently being heaped on airbnb.

[deleted]

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#117

Post by tokenadult »

mgkimsal wrote: post #65
ig1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This already happens on classified ad sites, people regularly go into strangers homes to purchase a wide range of goods with close to zero pre-checks. And yes people do get killed when they turn up at someone's house with 5k in cash to buy a car. Doesn't seem to have stopped the classified business from working...

While you're right, it hasn't stopped them, "classifieds" have largely been eroded by things like Craigslist, which do allow you to do a bit of research and contact on your own. They don't prevent it. And I typically am not paying for the privilege of meeting my ransacker/assailant. What's more, CL (and others) actively try to scare you with warnings about how not to get scammed and such. ABNB doesn't seem to take th…

I know the father of one young person who was murdered after responding to a Craigslist ad looking for a babysitter.

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/41701952.html?elr=KAr...

(I met him after his daughter's murder.) The Craigslist founder Craig himself was involved in responding directly to that incident and appeared in public at a memorial event for the murder victim.

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/44272442.html?page=all...

These days, Craigslist has a lot of warnings about dangerous transactions, and for Airbnb to NOT have had similar warnings until last week suggests its lawyers weren't on the ball about what a reasonable standard of care is for being a third party arranging room rental transactions among strangers.

The young woman who was murdered in this part of the country was a kind, trusting, and perhaps hopelessly naive young woman who was surprised by a pervert with a deadly weapon. Airbnb regularly sets up situations, as in the recently reported incidents, in which the wrongdoer doesn't even have to confront the victim while stealing movable property, stealing identities, and destroying real property. Precisely because Craigslist incidents have been in the news for years now, it's crazy for Airbnb not to measure up to the industry standard of care.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#118

Post by bugsy »

It's very interesting that he had the exact same experience and was given the run around by AirBnB. His story also shows that they are not being completely truthful when they said EJ's case was the first time anything like this had happened in 2 million rentals. I wonder what the real statistics are.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#119

Post by michaelcampbell »

timr wrote: post #56
cletus wrote: post #18

As much as some people might view this as "sometimes things go wrong", which is basically true, that's not the whole story. The story here is that people are doing things that in most jurisdictions are illegal. AirBnB is profiting off this. Do something illegal and you can't insure against any negative consequences. The whole EJ situation is a potential inflection point. Without knowing the full facts (which no one s…

"But there's something "off" about EJ's position here. Why is a vandalized apartment leaving her homeless?" Put yourself in the position of a person who has just had their apartment burglarized (remember: they stole her personal documents and valuables) and their keys stolen by probable drug addicts. Also, remember that the police have arrested one of the vandals, but probably not all of them. Ignoring, for the momen…

Having had that exact situation happen to me (a burglary), neither my wife nor I acted anything like this. And yes, I understand that everyone reacts differently to these situations, but she seems like she seriously needs some professional help (which I would argue also is ok; different folks, different needs), that she is willfully NOT GETTING, but rather airing emotionally-laden tidbits for the masses to consume as a substitute. I agree with the OP here; something is tingling my skeptic-sense on this one. Of course, maybe I'm wrong.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#120

Post by coffeemug »

mgkimsal wrote: post #22

What's going to be a game changer is when stories start breaking about owners who rent out their space as a way to lure in people for killing or torturing them. Right now it's about "you were stupid, why did you rent your space out to strangers?". Later on it'll be "why did you try to save $20 and go sleep some place where you're 110% vulnerable?". You don't control the locks, you don't know the neighborhood or even…

There's probably quite a few more that haven't come forward because they've felt it was their own fault, much like domestic abuse spouses blame themselves.

A different way to put this is that most rational people recognize that letting strangers into their home is completely within the realm of their personal responsibility. AirBnB will have to put some processes in place in order for the business to succeed in the mainstream, but that doesn't absolve the hosts of responsibility for their apartments. Comparing this to domestic abuse victims is ludicrous.

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