Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

xda-developers.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 204 posts

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#131

Post by m4rtink »

jankotek wrote: post #31
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel LineageOS + F-Droid is often underrated when it comes to these discussions about alternate ecosystems. If we're ready to let go of name brands, then F-Droid has some very high quality apps[1] built with passion over profit. But I agree that the initial friction to setup LineageOS on the device is far too high for a non-technical customer, Something which could be only resolved if a devices ships with LineageOS…

I had run LineageOS for some time. It works, but FDroid is missing too many apps, even opensource like Signal. I have to update apks manually every few months.

You need to manually update apps from Fdroid due to artificial limitations introduced by Google for third party app stores - only Google Play and possibly device vendor apps stores can update apps automatically on non-rooted device.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#132

Post by forgotmypw17 »

ddtaylor wrote: post #18
danuker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'll try to find a way to enable the cameras on unlocked phones in the future. In the meantime, I will only buy what ACTUALLY gives me control RIGHT NOW, namely, what is supported by LineageOS: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

The average consumer only wants to purchase the cross-section between what is the cheapest and works the best. For most consumers Open Source is not a feature.

I think this will change as devices become more long-lived (I still use an Android 5.x device today) and more repairable.

For many it won't matter, but for many it will.

You can see a similar thing today with automobiles. Some people only buy for features and let it go after a couple years, but many others also consider longevity and repair and parts costs.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#133

Post by flyinghamster »

keanebean86 wrote: post #85
flyinghamster wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T-Mobile US's LG devices came with unlockable bootloaders as well, but that only helps if someone develops a ROM for it. Even then, more and more important functionality is getting locked behind closed doors. On my Stylo 5, it's not the camera, it's VoLTE. What good is it to run a custom ROM if I can't make and receive phone calls?

I have an LG G8 from T-Mobile. It hasn't been updated since February. Rumor is they're rolling out android 11 in Q4 which is more than a year after 11 was released. Contrast that with my wife's S10 that's got 11 around February. At this point I have very little faith LG will follow through with updates for even the original two years let alone android 12.

Yikes. My Stylo 5 recently got an update, bringing its patch level to June 1, 2021 (still Android 10). I guess I should consider myself lucky. Considering that LG decided to quit the market, I'm not too hopeful, either.

I'm honestly considering going back to a flip phone once the Stylo becomes unusable. Sure, I'd end up losing some neat things, but the bargain we're being offered with smartphones is looking more Faustian every day.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#134

Post by qweqwweqwe-90i »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #75
danuker wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With various right-to-repair legislation popping up everywhere, I am not so sure. Software restrictions are one way to ensure planned obsolescence.

Actually, there is a specific set of features that guarantees planned obsolescence: * Irreplaceable battery (or one that is difficult to remove by the user). * on the iPhone, the Lightning socket and the Home button. The former starts to wear out after ca. 5 years; the Home button lasts a bit longer. Apple will repair both these for you but at this point you will be tempted to buy a new device instead because of the…

For most people, EOL phones have 0 use.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#135

Post by scns »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #27
danuker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'll try to find a way to enable the cameras on unlocked phones in the future. In the meantime, I will only buy what ACTUALLY gives me control RIGHT NOW, namely, what is supported by LineageOS: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

I feel LineageOS + F-Droid is often underrated when it comes to these discussions about alternate ecosystems. If we're ready to let go of name brands, then F-Droid has some very high quality apps[1] built with passion over profit. But I agree that the initial friction to setup LineageOS on the device is far too high for a non-technical customer, Something which could be only resolved if a devices ships with LineageOS…

https://e.foundation sells devices with /e/ preinstalled

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#136

Post by alerighi »

amelius wrote: post #39
sneak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter whether it's the tyranny of Samsung being dicks or the tyranny of the copyright cartel jamming the fiction that is intellectual property down our throats (and thereby being dicks) that is fucking up one's phone. Perhaps the law needs to recognize that buying hardware should come with rights to the firmware. If all hardware is useless without firmware, then all hardware is useless without additional…

I think we should have a clear separation between hardware and software companies. This is how it worked in the old days when the internet was built. Hardware companies are getting too much power over our data, and we need more freedom of choice in how our data is treated and by whom, regardless of the hardware that we own. A company can be "good" one day and "bad" the next day. We shouldn't be forced to throw away a…

The thing was that with computers we had the BIOS, that defined an open (well, in the first days it was proprietary but became a de facto open specification) that allowed interoperability between hardware and software, to the point that it provided the most basic functions to be able to boot whatever operating system you liked.

We should have done the same on the mobile, there is no reason why this works on computer and not on smartphones, if not commercial reasons. Why on a macbook I can install Linux but on an iPhone I can't boot whatever operating system I want? It's not a matter of security, because it's the user that chooses to change the operating system.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#137

Post by alerighi »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

I can almost guarantee this is due to licensing issues with the camera firmware. Modern cameras aren't just hardware any more. They're a mix of hardware and advanced processing algorithms that really do make a huge difference in the final output. Those algorithms are often licensed from 3rd parties with specific licensing requirements. Sony has been reasonably good about enabling open-source and fixing these things i…

Even if that is the case, what is the reason to forbid the access to the camera completely? Just remove the stock camera app with the proprietary algorithms in them. And let other applications access the camera trough the stock Android camera API.

A camera is in the end a sensor that captures some video, why locking down that video stream? I get the algorithms, but leave the raw video stream to be used by other applications.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#138

Post by sudosysgen »

JeremyNT wrote: post #70
hhsbz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you tamper with the device it's your responsibility, innit? It's not like they disabled a properly functioning device that uses the original firmware with an OTA update.

> If you tamper with the device it's your responsibility, innit? It's not like they disabled a properly functioning device that uses the original firmware with an OTA update And more to the point, Samsung is under no obligation to allow bootloader unlocking at all, much less ensure that it continues to provide any specific set of functionality. The alternative here isn't "Samsung stops disabling the camera when the b…

It's not up to Samsung to allow bootloader unlock or not. There will be exploits that will allow for a bootloader unlock or worse unless they allow for it.

Besides, we don't have to be happy with the status quo, we can legislate for bootloader unlocking to be allowed.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#139

Post by amelius »

surajrmal wrote: post #126
amelius wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should have a clear separation between hardware and software companies. This is how it worked in the old days when the internet was built. Hardware companies are getting too much power over our data, and we need more freedom of choice in how our data is treated and by whom, regardless of the hardware that we own. A company can be "good" one day and "bad" the next day. We shouldn't be forced to throw away a…

All modern investment in this space is explicitly trying to push for better hardware software co-design. This is seen as the path forward in light of Moore's law dying. There has always been a boundary where your ownership of software truly begins. In PCs it was at the firmware, and with smart phones it has been at some arbitrary location the os vendor has seen fit. The web had been the most crippling place for user…

> All modern investment in this space is explicitly trying to push for better hardware software co-design.

I'm ok with hardware vendors writing their own firmware. The problem I have is when they push updates, and take over control of my hardware.

So hw/sw codesign is fine, as long as it is sold as a hardware unit that I control.

> This is seen as the path forward in light of Moore's law dying.

At this point I care more about having control over my data and devices than about Moore's law.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#140

Post by floatboth »

the_pwner224 wrote: post #119
arsome wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I refuse to buy any device that requires me to go crying to the manufacturer for an unlock key. Google and OnePlus devices can be unlocked locally with no need to contact anyone and beg, so no one can refuse your unlock on a device you already paid for.

Google devices cannot be unlocked locally. My USA spec Pixel 5, purchased unlocked from Best Buy, had to be connected to the internet - and I don't remember, but I may have also had to put a SIM card in - before it could be unlocked. Apparently a background service automatically checks with Google's servers whether the device is eligible for unlock (is it paid off or still under financing, and which carrier is it fro…

This discussion is not about carrier unlock! This is about `fastboot oem unlock`.
Post reply on HN