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Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

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Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#81

Post by glhaynes »

aristidb wrote: post #47
Michiel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried finding software on OS X, and I could find many pieces of software by searching for them in the App Store application. Also, the app store seems to combine download and install with marketing, as it was heavily promoting OS X Lion at the time of my visit. I also learned that OS X Lion solves the problem where after a reboot your program state is gone, something that Bill Gates was also complaining about. OS X…

The price of a Lion upgrade is pretty much immaterial, as the relevant price of OS X is really bundled into the price of the hardware. You cannot buy a Lion DVD and install it on a non-Mac PC.

Right... but they wanted a Mac anyway. :)

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#82

Post by [deleted] »

nhebb wrote: post #9

Dear Bing, I went to microsoft.com and entered "moviemaker" (one word, just like Gates) in the search box. The top site search result - powered by Bing - is an XP downloads page, which of course didn't have a Movie Maker download. I tried a Google site search with "site:microsoft.com moviemaker", and and the top result was the (correct) Movie Maker 2011 page. I also searched google.com for "moviemaker", and again the…

[deleted]

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#83

Post by bad_user »

w1ntermute wrote: post #58
aristidb wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price of a Lion upgrade is pretty much immaterial, as the relevant price of OS X is really bundled into the price of the hardware. You cannot buy a Lion DVD and install it on a non-Mac PC.

Of course, that doesn't mean that running Lion on a PC is out of the question: http://lifehacker.com/5823837/how-do-i-upgrade-my-hackintosh...

It is if you care about staying withing legal bounds and thus respecting their EULA.

Also, OS X is not designed to run on any hardware, like Windows or Linux -- basically you have to ensure that you get the same configuration that Macs have, or you're sure to run into trouble.

This means that if you already have a desktop or a laptop, you most definitely won't be able to run OS X on it, at least without pain; instead you're far better off buying new hardware and you're even better off going for an original Mac instead, or just not using OS X altogether.

I mean, yeah, I know some people are happy with their hackintoshes, but it has been a poor experience for me and I just reverted to my reliable Ubuntu / Windows combo.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#84

Post by nxn »

podperson wrote: post #73
Maro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now. > products that bring intense pain to it users I'm a Mac user and I love Office (over OO and iWork). > as frustrated as anyone else about the problem It's not "a" problem. It's a large organization with tons of products, and some are more sucky then the rest. > is completely powerless to stop it He wasn't the CEO anymore when he wrote this. Also, even if he were the CEO, he can't go in and fix every anno…

Clicked you up but: 1. Seriously, try iWork ;-). Not only does Pages kick Word's butt, it can sit in the middle of a Word-based workflow (e.g. preserving change tracking). 2. Visual Studio doesn't kill Realbasic (from a tiny developer) or Xcode. Xcode has a different level of abstraction, but the result is that Xcode devs consistently produce far more polished apps than Visual Studio devs. But yes, it's pretty darn g…

> Xcode has a different level of abstraction, but the result is that Xcode devs consistently produce far more polished apps than Visual Studio devs. But yes, it's pretty darn good.

Don't you feel like you're ignoring some very important variables by saying that? For example: Cocoa vs Windows Forms, Cocoa vs WPF, etc?

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#85

Post by jpdoctor »

My favorite part from Bill:

> So I did the reboot because it INSISTED on it. Of course that meant completely getting rid of all my Outlook state.

The fact that you can lose Outlook state by a reboot doesn't seem to bother anyone. It doesn't seem to have dawned on MS or Bill that maybe saving the state as you go might be a useful thing.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#86

Post by shabble »

Michiel wrote: post #43
nhebb wrote: post #9

Dear Bing, I went to microsoft.com and entered "moviemaker" (one word, just like Gates) in the search box. The top site search result - powered by Bing - is an XP downloads page, which of course didn't have a Movie Maker download. I tried a Google site search with "site:microsoft.com moviemaker", and and the top result was the (correct) Movie Maker 2011 page. I also searched google.com for "moviemaker", and again the…

I tried finding software on OS X, and I could find many pieces of software by searching for them in the App Store application. Also, the app store seems to combine download and install with marketing, as it was heavily promoting OS X Lion at the time of my visit. I also learned that OS X Lion solves the problem where after a reboot your program state is gone, something that Bill Gates was also complaining about. OS X…

I'm currently failing to install Lion, since it gets as far as the restart stage, and (from what I can gather) is attempting to create a recovery partition, fails, and thus doesn't install.

All workarounds I've seen so far seem to indicate that I need an external device of >13G which must be formatted in the process (making me exceptionally nervous about trying to repartition my current USB external backup disk)

So yeah, it's still not perfect.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#87

Post by regularfry »

Peaker wrote: post #70
regularfry wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's four steps too many, and you've missed the step where the user chooses that Movie Maker is the specific app they want. It should be: 1 - Bill searches for "video editing" or similar 2 - Bill runs an app he selects from the result list Everything else is pandering to technical details. Advanced options can be presented as a right-click menu on the result list.

Ubuntu is pretty close to that...

Maybe it is. Windows isn't, and I can't see it getting there.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#88

Post by shriphani »

podperson wrote: post #73
Maro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now. > products that bring intense pain to it users I'm a Mac user and I love Office (over OO and iWork). > as frustrated as anyone else about the problem It's not "a" problem. It's a large organization with tons of products, and some are more sucky then the rest. > is completely powerless to stop it He wasn't the CEO anymore when he wrote this. Also, even if he were the CEO, he can't go in and fix every anno…

Clicked you up but: 1. Seriously, try iWork ;-). Not only does Pages kick Word's butt, it can sit in the middle of a Word-based workflow (e.g. preserving change tracking). 2. Visual Studio doesn't kill Realbasic (from a tiny developer) or Xcode. Xcode has a different level of abstraction, but the result is that Xcode devs consistently produce far more polished apps than Visual Studio devs. But yes, it's pretty darn g…

With the exception of Keynote, Numbers and Pages have not behaved well for me when given large documents. Numbers in particular struggled with datasets that Excel would handle very easily. I would rather use Google docs than bother with Pages / Numbers.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#89

Post by o1iver »

podperson wrote: post #73
Maro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now. > products that bring intense pain to it users I'm a Mac user and I love Office (over OO and iWork). > as frustrated as anyone else about the problem It's not "a" problem. It's a large organization with tons of products, and some are more sucky then the rest. > is completely powerless to stop it He wasn't the CEO anymore when he wrote this. Also, even if he were the CEO, he can't go in and fix every anno…

Clicked you up but: 1. Seriously, try iWork ;-). Not only does Pages kick Word's butt, it can sit in the middle of a Word-based workflow (e.g. preserving change tracking). 2. Visual Studio doesn't kill Realbasic (from a tiny developer) or Xcode. Xcode has a different level of abstraction, but the result is that Xcode devs consistently produce far more polished apps than Visual Studio devs. But yes, it's pretty darn g…

   Xcode devs consistently produce far more polished apps than Visual Studio devs
What is that statement based on? It is an absurd idea. If "more polished" means better code then this statement is just not true.

I just completed an internship in a big technology company and the code produced there (for automation/control in the energy and utilities sector) is quite certainly "more polished" than any iPhone application or whatever else people develop in Xcode (certainly not automation/control applications). And they use, amongst other more specialized tools, Virtual Studio.

Xcode is an IDE with a very small user-base, alone because of the fact that the Mac still has a small user-base within the industry. It probably even still has a small user-base in the developer community (aside from the hipster apps world).

I would love to see some evidence that apps developed in Xcode are usually "more polished" than apps produced in Visual Studio.

And in my personal opinion Visual Studio, especially IntelliSense kicks Xcode's butt every day. And same with MS Office...

Note: I don't use an IDE unless developing in C/C++, C#, Java or Objective-C

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#90

Post by neckbeard »

shabble wrote: post #86
Michiel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried finding software on OS X, and I could find many pieces of software by searching for them in the App Store application. Also, the app store seems to combine download and install with marketing, as it was heavily promoting OS X Lion at the time of my visit. I also learned that OS X Lion solves the problem where after a reboot your program state is gone, something that Bill Gates was also complaining about. OS X…

I'm currently failing to install Lion, since it gets as far as the restart stage, and (from what I can gather) is attempting to create a recovery partition, fails, and thus doesn't install. All workarounds I've seen so far seem to indicate that I need an external device of >13G which must be formatted in the process (making me exceptionally nervous about trying to repartition my current USB external backup disk) So y…

Apologies for the tangent, but I had that and needed to drop into single user mode and do a fsck to fix some errors.
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