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I am an HFT Programmer

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Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#81

Post by StrawberryFrog »

illumen wrote: post #71
zedshaw wrote: post #34

This is a huge load of bullshit. 99% of the "banking programmers" are some of the worst coders in the world. A vast majority of them just babysit a Bloomberg terminal, barely understanding the supposed math they use all day. Others just babysit an Excel spreadsheet, or worse, develop whole applications in Excel then try to get a real programmer to "build it". The lower echelons are even worse and just make shitty C#…

Maybe it's different in London compared to NY. There's plenty of decent makers in Finance in London. There's people who use all the best practice techniques in software development. People who wrote code you use every day.

> Maybe it's different in London compared to NY

I've seen the kind of guys described in zed's first para, in Finance in London. I don't think it's different, but YMMV.

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#82

Post by ramchip »

DasIch wrote: post #42
jasonkester wrote: post #37

Quick quiz: Given the ability to charge $100/hr for your time (which is what this guy's rate works out to), would you prefer to make: a.) $500,000 by working 100hr weeks b.) $250k by working 50hr weeks Me? I tend to lean toward secret option c: make $100k by working 25 40hr weeks, then spend the rest of the year squandering it on a beach with tall cold beers, good surfing/climbing and good wifi. Gotta keep them prior…

Indeed. What is the point of making so much money if you don't have time to spend it or have anything that resembles a life for that matter.

You can start a company with it after you quit.

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#83

Post by [deleted] »

sixtofour wrote: post #55
drp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the "value" being referred to here is social rather than financial.

Money can serve as a rough indicator of social value. For example, based on pay, society does not value teachers very much.

[deleted]

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#84

Post by veyron »

veyron wrote: post #56
DasIch wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. What is the point of making so much money if you don't have time to spend it or have anything that resembles a life for that matter.

Because you can make enough money to retire before you are 30, which means you can spend much more time with your wife and kids when that time comes. I wouldnt want to be the type of dad who has to stress out about money issues.

Replying to bmj (not sure why i don't see a reply link ...)

For me, and I think for a lot of other people on HN, retirement means not having to work for the money. Which, for people in some areas of the world, isn't really that much. And in that vein, if you don't have to worry about the money, you can afford to say "no, I would rather go see my daughter's choral concert than work". Obviously I would keep myself busy, but it would be under an arrangement where I could prioritize my family.

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#85

Post by Cushman »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #57
cletus wrote: post #39

I worked for a time in finance and investment banking. Problem-wise it can be pretty interesting but it's important to distinguish between two classes of developers. 1. Traders; and 2. Non-traders. Engineers who are traders are typically called "quants" (quantitative traders) as they write software that employs trading strategies to make money, as one or more of spread trading (trading between the bid-ask spread), pr…

"The only way for an engineer to make real money is to be a quant, found a startup or join an early stage startup." This statement should be included in every CS curriculum.

I think engineers have a different idea of what constitutes "real money". I'm imagining my graduating classmates who are out interviewing for "good jobs" with salaries in the mid-five figures.

It makes me remember how slightly awkward I felt every fall semester— I kept my mouth shut when talking about summer jobs, just because everyone else would talk about their minimum-wage gig at the ice cream shop or the kayak place. It just seemed so utterly unapproachable to even mention what I was pulling down as an "intern", let alone that I was probably getting about a quarter of my market value, let alone that I was doing something I had no formal training in and could pretty much drop out of college at any point for a net financial gain.

I think the statement that should go on every CS curriculum is "Normal people cannot understand what you do no matter how hard they try. Value yourself a little higher."

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#86

Post by 18pfsmt »

[deleted] wrote: post #62
zedshaw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I didn't use open source at all in that post. I said, they don't show it to anyone and I meant even other employees at the bank . Some of those dudes guarded their secret sauce like crazy, even when I was asked to help them improve it. When I finally got in to see it, it was a nasty horrible mess. But hey, good lame-troll attempt.

[deleted]

I've never worked at anything but a company with "closed-source" code, but all engineers within the company had access to all product code via SVN. From reading other comments, it seems the quants are paid relative to their code's performance in the market, and this culture of not sharing code is probably understandable under those circumstances.

In other words, Shaw doesn't seem to be recognizing the competitive nature of the HFT business, even within a given organization, and is more accustomed to a team effort.

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#87

Post by damoncali »

sixtofour wrote: post #55
drp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the "value" being referred to here is social rather than financial.

Money can serve as a rough indicator of social value. For example, based on pay, society does not value teachers very much.

Teachers actually make decent money. We clearly don't value soldiers and McDonalds workers. Wait - then how come we're so violent and fat?

Nevermind.

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#88

Post by wyclif »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #73
sage_joch wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even normal developer salaries amount to a lot of money compared to median household incomes. I'm known as the "rich one" in my family, and I haven't taken any risks at all. It's all relative, I guess.

Agreed, however, the shelf life of a programmer is very short compared to other career paths. It all depends on your industry, of course, but once you hit 40-50, you're competing with younger developers who have more energy and require far less compensation. Hence the need to make "real money" before you hit the age ceiling.

You're forgetting one crucial problem. Younger developers may or may not have more energy, but one thing they don't have is experience. Never, ever, underestimate experience.

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#89

Post by cpeterso »

orijing wrote: post #35

It's true, and it's somewhat discouraging. When I was in my last year in college, I applied to various types of companies, in different stages of life, plus a quant fund. In the end, while the salary/potential bonus for the fund was very enticing (despite not having graduated yet), I stuck with the middle-of-the-road tech company. (I also looked at Google and Dropbox but decided to go to FB). Google was desperate for…

> What the hell are you gonna do with 500k a year, anyway?

Donate it to a charitable cause?

Re: I am an HFT Programmer

#90

Post by juiceandjuice »

bmj wrote: post #79
veyron wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can make enough money to retire before you are 30, which means you can spend much more time with your wife and kids when that time comes. I wouldnt want to be the type of dad who has to stress out about money issues.

Except I bet people that actually want to work 100 hour weeks don't retire when they are 30. And if they do, they probably go crazy (and drive their families crazy) because they don't have anything to do. I wonder how many rich, overworked people really do walk away long before retirement age?

Right. The motivated can't ever stop.

It sort of runs in my family. My grandpa retired because he had a heart attack, then started his own company and had to stop that because he had a stroke. He sits in his house and watches fox news and I've never seen him unhappier (fox news doesn't help)

The only time my dad has worked less than 50 hours a week was when he was diagnosed as terminal and on medical leave for a cavernous malformation on his brainstem. He had brain surgery and now he's mostly better, and he's been back to 60 hours a week for a few years since then... except now he comes home exhausted, take some pain killers and lies in bed.

I make the same salary as he does, and I'm 25 working a bit more than 40 hours a week.

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