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Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

bbc.com

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Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#131

Post by LeifCarrotson »

Barrin92 wrote: post #2

"There were some old style editors who were still at the Post when I was there. One of them said, 'We don't cover black murders because those are cheap deaths,[..]Inside the newsroom some of them would say hello or nod or even speak to me but if they saw me outside the building they would pretend they didn't know me." I honestly can't even imagine what it's like to live like that. Not just the callousness but also ju…

What I can't imagine is what it was like to be that person. I wasn't alive (much less socially or politically active) in the time period being described. I'm alive now, when we have similar but different attitudes towards racism and sexism. However, people who I know and respect, who taught me the fundamentals of morality as a child, were those same people in the 60s. What goes on inside the head of a person in this kind of environment? Are they oblivious? Do they rationalize it? Are they conflicted or confused but pressured? How is this cultural attitude maintained in adults or taught in childhood?

I'm aware of some similar externally confusing contradictions in my own life - I eat beef and pork at family gatherings, though I believe those animals to be nearly as complex and intelligent as my own beloved dog; my home, vehicles, and lifestyle contribute fewer greenhouse gasses than my neighbors' might but still far more than they must if we're going to reverse climate change; I worry about erosion of privacy and corporate overreach but find the utility of Google's communication and navigation tools and Amazon's low-friction product delivery too compelling to avoid the appalling privacy implications...

Will my children and grandchildren look back in horror at how I used to live? Did my parents and grandparents have the same questions and rationalizations about about their own lives? I've asked a few of them, but never gotten an answer that allows me to intuit their perspective.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#132

Post by TMWNN »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #7

A whole generation of blacks could not get decent jobs for reasons like that. This generation gave birth to a new generation with less opportunities than they could have had because of the opportunities their parents got denied. It takes long time do undo the damage such profound discrimination causes, and it requires the heroic effort of many individuals like this reporter.

>A whole generation of blacks could not get decent jobs for reasons like that. This generation gave birth to a new generation with less opportunities than they could have had because of the opportunities their parents got denied. It takes long time do undo the damage such profound discrimination causes, and it requires the heroic effort of many individuals like this reporter.

Every new group in the US is initially seen as "the other". After some point, however, employers that hire "the other" find that they can pay them less because there is less demand to hire them, and thus benefit financially, they hire more. As other employers follow suit, over time the salaries go up until they match that of other groups.

Their children benefit. The first generation of manual laborers and farmworkers begets the second generation of policemen, nurses, and soldiers begets the third generation of doctors and lawyers and professors.

In the US this has happened to Irish, Italians, Germans, Russians, Jews, Asians, Indians, and Latinos. Why hasn't this happened to blacks (or has happened in substantially less numbers), despite the latter having the benefit of US citizenship and command of the English language from birth?

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#133

Post by refenestrator »

burnished wrote: post #100
jaywalk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if that's all BLM did, far fewer people would have any issue with them. But you're simply ignoring reality if you really think that they limit themselves to unreasonable killings.

Yeah like that person who lit a cop car in Seattle on fire! Oh, they were white? And from Texas? And didn't appear to believe that black lives mattered at all? The point I'm trying to get here is that you're arguing with what should be an unimpeachable central thesis "black lives matter". Also, you are kidding yourself. The US is still painfully racist. People were gonna get mad no matter what because it was about bl…

There's nutpicking and then there's having your movement taken over by nuts.

The public face of BLM at its peak, for better or worse, featured a large number of nuts. Like your bro in Seattle there. Or those CHAZ people, also Seattle, who actually killed 3 black guys in as many weeks as part of their black lives matter protest. In the mainstream, anyone who acknowledged black-on-black crime or said that rioting might be a bad PR look was called a fifth column or concern troll.

Mob mentality is a thing, I'm not perfect either but a lot of people got carried away.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#134

Post by chrismcb »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #131
Barrin92 wrote: post #2

"There were some old style editors who were still at the Post when I was there. One of them said, 'We don't cover black murders because those are cheap deaths,[..]Inside the newsroom some of them would say hello or nod or even speak to me but if they saw me outside the building they would pretend they didn't know me." I honestly can't even imagine what it's like to live like that. Not just the callousness but also ju…

What I can't imagine is what it was like to be that person. I wasn't alive (much less socially or politically active) in the time period being described. I'm alive now, when we have similar but different attitudes towards racism and sexism. However, people who I know and respect, who taught me the fundamentals of morality as a child, were those same people in the 60s. What goes on inside the head of a person in this…

Rationalisation mostly. It is fairly easy to rationalize almost anything.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#135

Post by dominotw »

KittenInABox wrote: post #130
dominotw wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With fees, room, and board, the total comes over 25k/year We lived off campus 4 ppl in a 2 bed ( ~100/head). My total living expense was ~350/month. My parents had recently immigrated, so i was totally ok with not having a "college experience" or actually knew what exactly it was. I was able to find another job on campus as an attendent at computer lab which game plenty of time to relax and do coursework. I agree t…

The University of Alabama mandates that all incoming freshmen spend at least one year fully on-campus.

there are tons of exceptions to this. In my case I had almost 3 years gap between high-school and freshman year. My roomates were able to easily prove financial hardship that comes with on campus living.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#136

Post by eplanit »

triceratops wrote: post #91
eplanit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is black lives seem to matter only if taken by a white police officer. The BLM movement is quite silent regarding other black deaths.

> The BLM movement is quite silent regarding other black deaths There's an expectation that the police will investigate regular crimes and bring the criminals to justice. For crimes committed by police, there's no such guarantee. Why is it wrong for a movement to focus on watching the watchmen? In any case, what are protests and rallies going to do against gang violence? You need social programs to keep kids out of g…

"You need social programs to keep kids out of gangs"

A cohesive home with both the mother and father present, where moral values are taught, is more effective than a sad, government-run program.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#137

Post by burnished »

refenestrator wrote: post #133
burnished wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah like that person who lit a cop car in Seattle on fire! Oh, they were white? And from Texas? And didn't appear to believe that black lives mattered at all? The point I'm trying to get here is that you're arguing with what should be an unimpeachable central thesis "black lives matter". Also, you are kidding yourself. The US is still painfully racist. People were gonna get mad no matter what because it was about bl…

There's nutpicking and then there's having your movement taken over by nuts. The public face of BLM at its peak, for better or worse, featured a large number of nuts. Like your bro in Seattle there. Or those CHAZ people, also Seattle, who actually killed 3 black guys in as many weeks as part of their black lives matter protest. In the mainstream, anyone who acknowledged black-on-black crime or said that rioting might…

The point I was making is that my "bro" wasn't part of BLM, but was merrily lumped in by media services that were actively lying during the protests in Seattle.

And yeah, the people who said that about protesting were concern trolls. There was a lot of police on protestor violence, and there was an honestly alarming amount of lies spread in news during that time. I'm talking about misreporting of events I was present for, or was actively watching live feeds of.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#138

Post by refenestrator »

burnished wrote: post #137
refenestrator wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nutpicking and then there's having your movement taken over by nuts. The public face of BLM at its peak, for better or worse, featured a large number of nuts. Like your bro in Seattle there. Or those CHAZ people, also Seattle, who actually killed 3 black guys in as many weeks as part of their black lives matter protest. In the mainstream, anyone who acknowledged black-on-black crime or said that rioting might…

The point I was making is that my "bro" wasn't part of BLM, but was merrily lumped in by media services that were actively lying during the protests in Seattle. And yeah, the people who said that about protesting were concern trolls. There was a lot of police on protestor violence, and there was an honestly alarming amount of lies spread in news during that time. I'm talking about misreporting of events I was present…

He was at a BLM protest and lit up that cop car. I checked, his quote was "I got carried away".

No comment on CHAZ killing 3 black dudes? Is that a pro or anti 'black lives matter' action?

You can define your personal boundary for who "counts" and not, have it include all the peaceful people and none of the bad/unwise people, and call everyone who disagrees a concern troll.. and hey, you'll be right, according to you.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#139

Post by kbelder »

blueflow wrote: post #46
hairofadog wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what point you're making, but I have noticed that "google Chicago shootings" has become something of a racist dog whistle, so if that's not your intent there may be better phrasing with which to make it.

Isn't "dog whistle" in this case just mental gymnastics to insinuate someone did somehow secretly say things even when neither meant to nor literally said it? Excuse my childish question, was that any different from purposefully misunderstanding your parent?

Yes. It's a way to say 'you seem bad, and nobody should listen to you' by virtue of simplistic pattern recognition. If you happen to use the same few words that somebody the OP dislikes used, you are categorized and ignored. Note that this is completely independent of whether those words are true or false, harmful or helpful.

It's a discussion killer and a thought ender, and I think HN would do well to ban accusations of dog-whistles. It never heightens the dialog, it only drags it down.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#140

Post by burnished »

refenestrator wrote: post #138
burnished wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I was making is that my "bro" wasn't part of BLM, but was merrily lumped in by media services that were actively lying during the protests in Seattle. And yeah, the people who said that about protesting were concern trolls. There was a lot of police on protestor violence, and there was an honestly alarming amount of lies spread in news during that time. I'm talking about misreporting of events I was present…

He was at a BLM protest and lit up that cop car. I checked, his quote was "I got carried away". No comment on CHAZ killing 3 black dudes? Is that a pro or anti 'black lives matter' action? You can define your personal boundary for who "counts" and not, have it include all the peaceful people and none of the bad/unwise people, and call everyone who disagrees a concern troll.. and hey, you'll be right, according to you…

Nope, no comment because I don't know what you're talking about. I spent some time reflecting on this little interaction and it really reminded me of when it was going on. I got a call from my grandmother to watch out because she had heard about some really ugly things and these Seattle riots, and was I staying safe? And it was bizarre, because the places she was describing were places I had been, and I had zero evidence for anything she described. It was like she was living in a reality where I was under siege while I was going to the protests that she was convinced were violent riots. Because that's how they were being reported.

Which brings me to talking to you. You've got this world view I can't validate but I suspect was informed by broadcasts that at the time I materially disagreed with, due to them being materially incorrect. You're characterizing the activity as a riot and talking about CHAZ like you know what it was like, but you don't. If you did you'd probably mention the fucking stupid garden people put in that immediately stopped being maintained, or the teargas fired at peaceful protesters, or the mayor promising that wouldn't happen anymore and that promise being broken less than twelve hours later, or that a big part of what was going on was that Seattle was trying to remove federal oversight in the form of the consent decree - Seattle has a pretty ugly history with its police, and a consent decree is a no fault agreement to oversight. Oh or the person who tried being a vigilante peace-keeper, how that didn't go over well, and ended in tears and hugs or any of the other bizarre events.

And that person - they weren't involved with BLM, thats the point. They came in from out of state and took advantage of some chaos. They were not ideologically involved. This is not a BLM equivalent of right-wing terror attacks. The rhetoric in the streets was to be on the lookout for agent provocateurs trying to stir this into violence, that anyone being violent or destructive was actively working against any kind of social reform or change.

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