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Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

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Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#151

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

lrem wrote: post #118
maeln wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he is confusing "interdit bancaire" and bankruptcy. If you end up being put in the interdit bancaire file, yeah life pretty much sucks and most bank will refuse to do business with you. But having a company that go bankrupt doesn't mean you will be put in the file. You usually need to do things like stop paying your loan to be put on this file.

I likely am. The idea to try a startup in France was very short lived for me. Every card was stacked against me (many particuarly against me/my ideas, not everything is a reflection on society), so I moved on after just a few conversations.

> Every card was stacked against me

Considering the insane amount of funds France will literally gift you just for opening a startup there, I find that very surprising. You have to be good at paper pushing and speak the language however. That much is true.

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#152

Post by pembrook »

raverbashing wrote: post #148
pembrook wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we’re talking Zurich specifically, the difference would probably only be 2-3X less than FANMAG/ETC. London salaries are high too (not Zurich levels from what I’ve seen), but that market is now separate from the EU. But most places in Europe with tech scenes and outsized VC investment, eg. helsinki, stockholm, berlin, amsterdam, etc you’re talking 5X less salary than in Silicon Valley. Given the tech talent in thos…

> helsinki, stockholm, berlin, amsterdam, etc you’re talking 5X less salary than in Silicon Valley. Certainly not for the same seniority level (and not considering stocks, which people in those places do get) Or you're telling me that someone making 60kEUR in Berlin could be transferred to SV and their salary would immediately flip to $300k on the payslip? (no promotions/stock/etc) Realistically, more like 2x, 2.5x,…

> you're telling me that someone making 60kEUR in Berlin could be transferred to SV and their salary would immediately flip to $300k

Yes. And it’s not just FAANG anymore. That’s a totally reasonable comp at about 30-50 different companies in the US right now (and the number of companies paying this comp is increasing along with the size of fundraising rounds).

Also, in my experience nobody is working 60+ hour weeks at these companies (the bigger the company, the easier the job), so it’s not like anybody is being overworked to get this money.

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#153

Post by dgudkov »

pembrook wrote: post #124
ToJans wrote: post #82

In my experience (Belgian guy that dabbled a bit with EU VCs for my SaaS) Europe is very risk-adverse, and you either have to give up ridiculous amounts of equity for a little amount (i.e. 50k€ for a 25% to +50% stake) when not established yet, or have a recurring revenue of at least 50k€/month to get reasonable propositions. Also, European culture is slightly different: most people consider a startup failure as some…

Europe’s lack of competitiveness in tech has been true pretty much since the birth of Silicon Valley. It was the same with the PC business back in the 80s and 90s. Here’s an article from the New York Times in 1996, struggling to understand why European PC manufacturers were all failing to expand outside their home markets: https://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/07/business/why-european-com... 25 years later, the story is th…

That's exactly my thoughts recently. As it appears, American venture capital simply can't build a big social media company that doesn't end up being a surveillance-driven, ad-ladden, privacy-hostile, user-despising, fake virtue-signalling behemoth.

So maybe it's time for Europe to shine.

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#154

Post by euorme »

_qsgk wrote: post #116

I am an American founder that accidentally built a company in Europe. I hired my first person there, and through the path of least resistance, most of our 45 person team is based in Europe. I believe I am playing 'business' on easy mode compared to European founders. As an American founder it's pretty easy for my US company to pay my European team as contractors. European founders have to comply with European employm…

You're cheating the system, though. The system exists in order to support the way of life in these countries, by bringing your American employment attitudes to Europe you're not really building a company in Europe by any measure: you're building an American company. Your company is benefitting from the robust systems in Europe, without contributing. There are people you want to hire in Europe _because of people paying their share of taxes_. If you don't want to pay employment taxes, if you don't want to offer maternity leave... stick to America.

Personally, I think there is a strong argument to make for the value of America-style lax employment rules when it comes to startups, absolutely, but please don't bring those to Europe by gaming the system. Hiring people as contractors to avoid obligations is an age old way to game the system, and eventually you'll be caught and face penalties (unless you're smarter about it, so I guess my advice is actually: be smarter about it (don't announce it on HN for example!)).

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#155

Post by arcturus17 »

another-dave wrote: post #139
_qsgk wrote: post #116

I am an American founder that accidentally built a company in Europe. I hired my first person there, and through the path of least resistance, most of our 45 person team is based in Europe. I believe I am playing 'business' on easy mode compared to European founders. As an American founder it's pretty easy for my US company to pay my European team as contractors. European founders have to comply with European employm…

This sounds really odd to me (UK-based, previously was contracting) — if someone is hired as a contractor, normally your company would be engaging their limited company as some type of consultancy arrangement. So you wouldn't have any maternity leave or paid time off at all. In fact, from the contractor's point-of-view, you'd want to run a mile from these things as if the revenue believed you were a de facto employee…

In Spain if you hire full-time contractors long term they can be considered full-time employees by law. There are ways around this such as hiring through temp agencies, hiring part-time or rotating them. But trying to do “FTE as contractor” is risky.

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#156

Post by lrem »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #151
lrem wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I likely am. The idea to try a startup in France was very short lived for me. Every card was stacked against me (many particuarly against me/my ideas, not everything is a reflection on society), so I moved on after just a few conversations.

> Every card was stacked against me Considering the insane amount of funds France will literally gift you just for opening a startup there, I find that very surprising. You have to be good at paper pushing and speak the language however. That much is true.

Yeah, my French is not what it should have been and I contracted an allergy to the French bureaucracy. Quite a bit of the whole thing is on me, no denying that.

A good friend is doing it now and it's not like he's swimming in cash though.

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#157

Post by ant6n »

dagw wrote: post #85
gyulai wrote: post #81

I'm wondering if this actually implies that Y-Combinator is willing to touch even with a 10-foot-pole companies incorporated in jurisdictions where company law works very differently from the U.S. For example in Germany & Austria, if a startup is organized as a GmbH ("Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung"), regulations around transfer of shares and minority shareholder protections are a lot heavier than for U.S. cor…

You can be from anywhere but your company has to be incorporated in United States, Canada, Singapore or the Cayman Islands. If you already have a GmbH and want to join YC you have to incorporate a parent company in one of those jurisdictions and make your existing company a subsidiary of that new parent company. YC will then invest and take a stake in the parent company rather than your 'real' company https://www.yco…

I wonder what the implications are off such a company structure.

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#158

Post by Sytten »

_qsgk wrote: post #116

I am an American founder that accidentally built a company in Europe. I hired my first person there, and through the path of least resistance, most of our 45 person team is based in Europe. I believe I am playing 'business' on easy mode compared to European founders. As an American founder it's pretty easy for my US company to pay my European team as contractors. European founders have to comply with European employm…

FYI since the laws in Europe are most likely similar to the laws of Canada on this, it can get your "contractors" into big trouble with their tax agency.

I know a lot of people do that (work as contractor but they are employees), but if you bother to read the tax code this is illegal. It takes one audit to be reclassfied and then you have to repay the taxes your employer would have paid. This can be retroactive for many years after employement has ended.

Stay away from those contracts.

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#159

Post by arcturus17 »

_qsgk wrote: post #116

I am an American founder that accidentally built a company in Europe. I hired my first person there, and through the path of least resistance, most of our 45 person team is based in Europe. I believe I am playing 'business' on easy mode compared to European founders. As an American founder it's pretty easy for my US company to pay my European team as contractors. European founders have to comply with European employm…

If you’re hiring contractors long-term in Spain for over a certain amount of their time (~80%) for the long term you can be liable as a full-time employer and may be obligated to change their contracts to full-time. I know it’s the same in other European markets and I doubt there are any exemptions for non-EU employers whatsoever.

All other conditions you describe are the same for a European or Spanish company hiring contractors, as long as you are not meeting the conditions for full-time employment and therefore disguising FTEs as contractors.

I’m curious as to what countries you are operating in that allow these kind of exemptions compared to local EU entrepreneurs. IANAL but 99% sure these exemptions do not exist in Spain at least.

EDIT: This case study [1] by a Spanish law firm indeed claims that a company based outside the EU (UK post-Brexit) can be tried in Spain for false contractor relationships.

[1] https://likum.es/el-falso-autonomo-tambien-si-la-empresa-y-e...

Re: Y Combinator’s European founder intake continues to grow

#160

Post by volta83 »

libertine wrote: post #133
stevoski wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “European culture is slightly different: most people consider a startup failure as something bad that you drag along for the rest of your career.” I hear this over and over, but in my 20 years of living in Europe, I haven’t found this to be the case. Perhaps it is only in some European countries or cultures?

Well the question that might be cynical is: do they actually mean it? Like saying, "oh at least you tried!"/"good for you!"/"you learning something right!"?, this is something I get. No one ever asked, "What went wrong, what went right?" / "What did you learn, what would you do differently?" / "Next time you'll try something hit me up!" / "I have something I'm working on, check this out, are you interested?" / "We sh…

+1.

Having worked at both, the main difference between SV and Europe is "share your failures so that everybody can learn" vs "downplay your failures so that you look better".

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