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Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#41

Post by znpy »

I'm realling getting fed up by how predatory technology has gotten in the last 10 years.

You really have to continuously look your back and double-check anything.

And you have relatives, especially older ones, that want to buy and use all the new shiny things, and often don't understand that the tech we use today is not like the tech they used to buy 50 years ago.

50 years ago you bought a piece of technology, you paid it, you brought it into your house and it made your life easier, and that was it.

Nowadays you buy a piece of technology, it's going to spy you, the producer is going to alter its behavior via software updates, it's often going to refuse to work without a subscription and recurring payments, it's going to just stop working prematurely when the producer decides that you have to upgrade, and it's going to conviniently allow the government (or a foreign government) to take a look into your private life.

And it's so painful to see big tech companies wash this in shiny and colorful commercials.

Stallman had seen this before anyone else, he was right all along.

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#42

Post by Grustaf »

zapzupnz wrote: post #39
Grustaf wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so "no limitations" wasn't correct. But still, you can use chrome on ios, you get all the ui and behaviours you are used to, no?

No support for Chrome extensions. Not even support for Safari Web Extensions bundled with iOS apps. Some browsers do have their own extensions (Edge has AdBlock Plus built-in, but that's all; iCab has quite a few Javascript-based extensions) and of course you get things like using another vendor's bookmark and password sync. But that's about it.

Oh really? But extensions are separate from the rendering, right? So is that a separate limitation then?

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#43

Post by nojito »

kypro wrote: post #34
danuker wrote: post #2

This is particularly troubling in light of their CSAM detection. "Before an image is stored in iCloud Photos, an on-device matching process is performed for that image against the known CSAM hashes." You do not own an Apple device that you buy. https://www.macworld.com/article/352875/ios-15-csam-scanning...

Is there any good reason to take Apple on their word that all their scanning for is CSAM? How certain can we be that they're not already using this technology secretly to look for other types of content when the government asks? I doubt they're going to announce every time the government requests they add detection for a new Pepe frog meme and other "far-right" content, and it seems almost inevitable governments will…

This same logic can be true of any cloud provider that scans indiscriminately.

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#44

Post by nojito »

vbezhenar wrote: post #24
new_realist wrote: post #16

Is Apple’s sin, here, assuming that when you sign into iCloud, you want to use iCloud?

Apple should either remember those privacy-related settings or don't enable any privacy-leaking settings (like iCloud photos) by default. At least as long as they claim to be privacy-aware company.

How can it remember settings after you sign out?

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#45

Post by setnone »

danuker wrote: post #2

This is particularly troubling in light of their CSAM detection. "Before an image is stored in iCloud Photos, an on-device matching process is performed for that image against the known CSAM hashes." You do not own an Apple device that you buy. https://www.macworld.com/article/352875/ios-15-csam-scanning...

I guess it'll soon be save to call it Apple's devices and not owning your content follows.

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#46

Post by karmakaze »

Nextgrid wrote: post #31
Geee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's straight up espionage. I bet they don't even delete the files, but just hide them from you.

I don't really assume malicious intent here - this is presumably "caching" the current unsaved changes on the cloud in case your application crashes or something. But the fact that it's not obvious at all is a major problem. There's also no way to selectively disable this behavior - if you want to use iCloud Drive for some documents you need to put up with this.

> I don't really assume malicious intent here - this is presumably "caching"

This doesn't seem like thinking critically. Do you not imagine that Apple, the size they are, with all their lawyers take a decision like this seriously? It's not like a developer unilaterally decided that they were going to make this as a feature without levels of management and execs deciding that this was okay.

Assuming incompetence rather than malice only applies when there's no previous behaviour suggesting the contrary. The only explanation I can think of for this attitude, is that if we like using Apple products, we somehow have to 'make it ok' to ourselves. I'm at least able to separate the experience with using a product with the aspect of how that product is used by its manufacturer.

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#47

Post by zapzupnz »

Grustaf wrote: post #42
zapzupnz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No support for Chrome extensions. Not even support for Safari Web Extensions bundled with iOS apps. Some browsers do have their own extensions (Edge has AdBlock Plus built-in, but that's all; iCab has quite a few Javascript-based extensions) and of course you get things like using another vendor's bookmark and password sync. But that's about it.

Oh really? But extensions are separate from the rendering, right? So is that a separate limitation then?

Not really separate. Many extensions designed for other browsers will still depend on quirks of the respective extension implementations, JavaScript engines, rendering engines, etc.

Of course, there are (supposed-to-be-but-aren't) browser-agnostic WebExtensions — but again, only Safari implements them on iOS (starting with iOS 15), they must be bundled with an iOS app, and non-Safari browsers don't have access to those bundled extensions.

Perhaps those browsers will implement support for WebExtensions by some other mechanism but it certainly won't be the case that Firefox for iOS could run extensions intended for Firefox on desktop, nor would one expect extensions from the Chrome Web Store to work properly on Chrome for iOS.

Perhaps that's an upshot? Better support for browser-agnostic WebExtensions?

Even then, that's up to whether or not Apple permits that in the App Store.

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#48

Post by sudosysgen »

Nextgrid wrote: post #31
Geee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's straight up espionage. I bet they don't even delete the files, but just hide them from you.

I don't really assume malicious intent here - this is presumably "caching" the current unsaved changes on the cloud in case your application crashes or something. But the fact that it's not obvious at all is a major problem. There's also no way to selectively disable this behavior - if you want to use iCloud Drive for some documents you need to put up with this.

You can just cache activity to a local duplicate file. It's not a new idea. There's no reason to do it on the cloud.

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#49

Post by nowherebeen »

What's worst if even if I disable everything, I will find that some app will turn on iCloud sync by default at a later date without me knowing. I have to constantly check the settings to make sure nothing is syncing without my permission.

Re: Tell HN: Signing out and in to Apple device forcefully activates iCloud sync

#50

Post by kypro »

nojito wrote: post #43
kypro wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any good reason to take Apple on their word that all their scanning for is CSAM? How certain can we be that they're not already using this technology secretly to look for other types of content when the government asks? I doubt they're going to announce every time the government requests they add detection for a new Pepe frog meme and other "far-right" content, and it seems almost inevitable governments will…

This same logic can be true of any cloud provider that scans indiscriminately.

Sure, I guess my point is that calling this CSAM detection is deceptive as the technology itself can (and probably will) be used to detect any type of content. We also have no way to verify Apple are only using the technology currently to scan for CSAM so why give them the benefit of the doubt when they have so many incentives to go beyond CSAM scanning?
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