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The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#621

Post by timmytokyo »

simonw wrote: post #458
rayiner wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control an…

How is "the science here is still uncertain" an argument against masks in schools? If it turns out they are useful, wearing them will have been a good idea. If it turns out that they weren't useful, what harm has been caused? (I'm aware that there are people out there who think wearing masks for a year or two will scar children for life, but for the most part I don't think those people are arguing in good faith. The…

The article discusses a few of the potential harms to young children. At that age, children are learning how to read social cues, and they do that by observing faces. An indefinite mask mandate that lasts for years could have developmental consequences for these children.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#622

Post by paul_f »

xadhominemx wrote: post #589
paul_f wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue of vaccine hesitancy is much more nuanced than this. For example, according to the CDC, the population least vaccinated in the US are black. https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-...

Black people have their own idiosyncratic reasons for vaccine skepticism, unrelated to partisan politics. But anyway, Trump support is still a stronger correlation: https://mobile.twitter.com/gelliottmorris/status/14207453318...

We should stop with the "it's just the Trump supporters" thinking. Yes them, but various other groups including PhDs. A Carnegie Mellon study identified the groups with the most vaccine hesitancy.

"independent hesitancy risk factors included younger age, non-Asian race, having a PhD or ≤high school education, living in a rural county, living in a county with higher 2020 Trump support, lack of worry about COVID-19, working outside the home, never intentionally avoiding contact with others, and no past-year flu vaccine. " https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#623

Post by amatecha »

dstaley wrote: post #581
autokad wrote: post #521

There is lots of competition for the top of the stupidity list. NYC locking down all summer and then 'opening up' in September seemed top of the list to me. It's not that I thought they should have stayed locked down the entire time, its that they should have opened in the summer so they could lock down in the winter if they really needed it. But seriously though, locking down in the summer to only open up in flu sea…

> Or what about the fact we are 2 years into this and we still haven't built a significant amount of hospitals? If I understand correctly, there isn't a lack of literal beds/space; it's a lack of personnel. Basically hospitals are unable to staff themselves at the levels needed to accomodate being basically 100% full. This is compounded by the fact that hospitals are struggling to retain healthcare workers, who are b…

Unfortunately, there is absolutely a lack of beds. Someone I know was in emergency last week (totally unrelated to pandemic) and had to wait an entire day before actually being properly admitted to a ward because there were no beds available for them. So they layed in an emergency room "booth"[0] for close to 24 hours, until a bed became available. There are lots of news articles about the lack of beds/capacity all over the place [1][2][3]

[0] I don't know the right word for it, but a small room usually used for short-term ([1] https://vancouversun.com/news/covid-19-kelowna-general-hospi...

[2] https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/oregon-e...

[3] https://richmond.com/news/national/with-no-beds-hospitals-sh...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#624

Post by heavyset_go »

rossdavidh wrote: post #36

Good article, but doesn't mention the other reason that covid-19 is never going completely away: animal reservoirs. We know that dogs, cats, hamsters, guinea pigs, mink, white-tailed deer, a gorilla, and a tiger have been found to have been infected with covid-19. It is implausible that it will ever cease to have an animal reservoir, especially given the finding in Canada of 30% of white-tailed deer having it. Of dis…

Animal reservoirs are also responsible for helping to breed illnesses that are able to evade our attempts to stop their proliferation, like with antibiotics, antivirals, and vaccines.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#625

Post by lrem »

autokad wrote: post #521

There is lots of competition for the top of the stupidity list. NYC locking down all summer and then 'opening up' in September seemed top of the list to me. It's not that I thought they should have stayed locked down the entire time, its that they should have opened in the summer so they could lock down in the winter if they really needed it. But seriously though, locking down in the summer to only open up in flu sea…

Care to share your source on "don't do very well at stopping spread"? When I searched arxiv, it seemed to be 4-10x reduction in viral loads.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#626

Post by orthoxerox »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #598
autokad wrote: post #521

There is lots of competition for the top of the stupidity list. NYC locking down all summer and then 'opening up' in September seemed top of the list to me. It's not that I thought they should have stayed locked down the entire time, its that they should have opened in the summer so they could lock down in the winter if they really needed it. But seriously though, locking down in the summer to only open up in flu sea…

>Or what about the fact we are 2 years into this and we still haven't built a significant amount of hospitals? I don't think 2 years is enough to just "build new hostipal", let alone staff them, supply them to hospital standards, and start taking business. It's not land that's short, it's talent.

> I don't think 2 years is enough to just "build new hostipal", let alone staff them

It totally is enough time to build one. Staffing is more problematic, but if it was a state-run hospital you could've converted a lot of national guardsmen into nurses in the meanwhile. You don't need a lot of talent to handle most Covid cases, just people able to follow the protocol.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#627

Post by abstractbarista »

jmull wrote: post #413
User23 wrote: post #132

What baffles me is the total failure to highlight one of the best ways to mitigate the risk of severe covid complications: don’t be obese[1]. It’s also a good life choice for those who also prefer not to die of non-covid conditions. Edit: And it increases your risk for long covid[2]. [1] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/latest-evidence-on... [2] https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210608/obesity-increases-r...

Do you really think there are a lot of obese people around that can simply stop being obese but just haven't had a reason to yet? Where do people come up with this stuff?

I think most people can stop.

I also think most people lack the resolve to stop.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#628

Post by HarryHirsch »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #577
leoedin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the end goal? Do we keep lockdown restrictions forever? The case fatality rate for a vaccinated population is really low. There must be an acceptable level - after all we don't lock down for other endemic viruses which also have non-zero CFRs. What is it? Have we reached it?

Public acceptance of perpetual lockdowns, or at least at-will lockdowns, probably is the goal. People get more tolerant of authoritarian governments when there's a high prevalence of infectious disease. Governments seeking re-election pushing a narrative that the danger from infectious diseases is high while also being seen to be 'doing something' is likely a self-reinforcing dynamic.

To be honest, until two weeks ago the official narrative has been that we'll all go back to normal once everyone has taken the vaccine. Unfortunately, the virus has thrown a spanner into the works. This wasn't planned.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#629

Post by umvi »

001spartan wrote: post #145
qwerty456127 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost sure 100% vaccination rate with the vaccines currently available won't change much. I hope I'm wrong. But there already are cases apparently confirming this. IMHO we should just return to normal, consider this a new kind of flu and deal with the fact it's more deadly. I always knew there is a chance a flu can kill me one day. I'm Ok with the fact the chance is higher now. My personal (apparently risky, I d…

Returning to normal is a terrible idea when COVID patients are overwhelming hospitals across the world. How can things be normal if our healthcare systems are nearing collapse? You might be willing to accept the risk of getting sick on your behalf, but by advocating a return to 'normal' before we have the capabilities to deal with this virus, you are advocating for putting even more stress on healthcare systems acros…

> How can things be normal if our healthcare systems are nearing collapse?

Why are healthcare systems unable to scale (horizontally or vertically) to meet demand unlike every other industry in the world? That should be a red flag that you don't have a robust system when it is unable to scale. We've had nearly 2 years since the start of covid to make healthcare systems more robust. Why haven't we? Maybe we should focus on that instead of telling people to mask up from cradle to grave.

Imagine if the computer industry were the same and we asked people to limit their internet time for 2+ years because the servers and routers that make up the internet were always on the brink of collapse? Like... wouldn't we just build more servers and routers until demand could be met?

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#630

Post by ravenstine »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #504
beloch wrote: post #489

"The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earli…

People will always be sceptical of deviations from the status quo and politicians will always be there to capitalize on those fears for substantial gains of power. We have the most educated populis in human history and we're still seeing these problems. I'm not sure how you could fix vaccines becoming a political issue without major changes to the political structure.

> politicians will always be there to capitalize on those fears for substantial gains of power.

And there will always be millions of saps and pollyannas who believe their politicians just want to help them.

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