Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability • Hacker News Board

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#41

Post by tzs » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 9:25 AM UTC

sorbus wrote: post #28

tzs wrote: post #7

Is there a better link for that document? Slated.org blocks large swathes of the internet from accessing them. If they think your ISP uses something called "phorm" you get blocked and told to find a better ISP. Unfortunately, their block is not well done. For instance, Sprint the ISP apparently used "phorm" and was blocked. However, the block also caught anyone whose packets ended up getting routed over Sprint the ma…

Does the link to scribd not work (such links are inserted in brackets whenever HN detects a story going to a pdf)? It doesn't give you the pdf, so you have to read it in the browser, but it seems perfectly functional otherwise.

I hadn't noticed that those [scribd] things were links! I thought it just meant that the link was to a PDF.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#42

Post by Hov » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 9:35 AM UTC

nhebb wrote: post #9

Dear Bing, I went to microsoft.com and entered "moviemaker" (one word, just like Gates) in the search box. The top site search result - powered by Bing - is an XP downloads page, which of course didn't have a Movie Maker download. I tried a Google site search with "site:microsoft.com moviemaker", and and the top result was the (correct) Movie Maker 2011 page. I also searched google.com for "moviemaker", and again the…

Is there any reason why you feel typing "moviemaker" into a search engine SHOULD bring up Microsofts software as the first hit?

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#43

Post by Michiel » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 9:42 AM UTC

nhebb wrote: post #9

Dear Bing, I went to microsoft.com and entered "moviemaker" (one word, just like Gates) in the search box. The top site search result - powered by Bing - is an XP downloads page, which of course didn't have a Movie Maker download. I tried a Google site search with "site:microsoft.com moviemaker", and and the top result was the (correct) Movie Maker 2011 page. I also searched google.com for "moviemaker", and again the…

I tried finding software on OS X, and I could find many pieces of software by searching for them in the App Store application. Also, the app store seems to combine download and install with marketing, as it was heavily promoting OS X Lion at the time of my visit.

I also learned that OS X Lion solves the problem where after a reboot your program state is gone, something that Bill Gates was also complaining about.

OS X Lion costs 24 euros and that, among other things, is why Apple is eating their lunch (but I do like Visual Studio and .NET).

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#44

Post by throwmeahway » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 9:47 AM UTC

My dear Bill, how have you been this century?

Please consider making a true light and modular Windows OS. I cannot do simple things like Alt-Tab on Windows 7.

I beg you, create a streamlined Windows XP-like OS that allows full functionality based on a modular approach. I'd also like to know what all the programs and services are running (am I running adware/malware/virus or is this vital etc). And not Windows 7 starter.

Something like XPLite but created by Microsoft!

Mr. Throwaway, your most obedient.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#45

Post by tripzilch » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 9:49 AM UTC

nhebb wrote: post #9

Dear Bing, I went to microsoft.com and entered "moviemaker" (one word, just like Gates) in the search box. The top site search result - powered by Bing - is an XP downloads page, which of course didn't have a Movie Maker download. I tried a Google site search with "site:microsoft.com moviemaker", and and the top result was the (correct) Movie Maker 2011 page. I also searched google.com for "moviemaker", and again the…

You realize this email discussion dates from 2003, right?

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#46

Post by emilsedgh » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 9:55 AM UTC

Maro wrote: post #33

lurker14 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People think the email is weird or unique because they are surprised that Bill Gates made 40 Billion dollars by running a company that builds products that bring intense pain to it users, and he appears to as frustrated as anyone else about the problem, and yet is completely powerless to stop it, even though he is in charge of everyone involved. It's bizarre to see someone who knows he is doing everything wrong and i…

Come on now. > products that bring intense pain to it users I'm a Mac user and I love Office (over OO and iWork). > as frustrated as anyone else about the problem It's not "a" problem. It's a large organization with tons of products, and some are more sucky then the rest. > is completely powerless to stop it He wasn't the CEO anymore when he wrote this. Also, even if he were the CEO, he can't go in and fix every anno…

"If it weren't for Bill Gates, we might not be having this conversation..."

I hate it when people give Bill Gates and Microsoft credit for whole computer and IT advancements.

We are having this conversation because many many people worked hard on these technologies. Microsoft and Bill Gates are only one of them.

Of course, DOS and Windows accerelated wider adoption of personal computers, but even if they havent, someone other company would've done so.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#47

Post by aristidb » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 9:57 AM UTC

Michiel wrote: post #43

nhebb wrote: post #9

Dear Bing, I went to microsoft.com and entered "moviemaker" (one word, just like Gates) in the search box. The top site search result - powered by Bing - is an XP downloads page, which of course didn't have a Movie Maker download. I tried a Google site search with "site:microsoft.com moviemaker", and and the top result was the (correct) Movie Maker 2011 page. I also searched google.com for "moviemaker", and again the…

I tried finding software on OS X, and I could find many pieces of software by searching for them in the App Store application. Also, the app store seems to combine download and install with marketing, as it was heavily promoting OS X Lion at the time of my visit. I also learned that OS X Lion solves the problem where after a reboot your program state is gone, something that Bill Gates was also complaining about. OS X…

The price of a Lion upgrade is pretty much immaterial, as the relevant price of OS X is really bundled into the price of the hardware. You cannot buy a Lion DVD and install it on a non-Mac PC.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#48

Post by temphn » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 9:59 AM UTC

JeffffreyF wrote: post #24

fraserharris wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usability is hard. This superficially simple example crosses many products / teams (being Microsoft, we are talking about 100s of people involved). A small startup has the same challenges because your engineers build features, not user experiences. It takes a great product manager to advocate effectively for the user.

It's not at all hard, it's a philosophical problem. They simply believe their concerns are more important than the users. It's not hard or complicated, they're just philosophicaly fools because they believe what they want matters. It doesn't, and they can't wrap their heads around that. It doesn't at all when customers suffer because all they get depends on customers getting what they need. It's a simple concept that…

When Windows was better than the competition, it was winning in the marketplace. Now Google and Apple are better than the competition, so they are winning in the marketplace.

Capitalism is working just fine.

Unlike Microsoft, by contrast, the DMV has no competition and cannot go bankrupt. That's where things start to get very bad.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#49

Post by Steko » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:03 AM UTC

res0nat0r wrote: post #26

Can we blame Microsoft for starting the trend of top replying to emails? Since I had to scroll to the bottom of this pdf to read the original message from Bill Gates I'm going to say yes. That is a terrible usability issue I've have to deal with every day for years which I hate. I'd love to go back to the days of plain text and > indented replies.

There's pluses and minuses to any implementation. I'd guess new emails on top has won out because it makes previews more useful. Dozens of times a day when I get an email I'm able to digest the entire new content of an email from a 2 line preview that fades in and out of excel. Or when I look through my client I can see the first couple lines of each email and quickly find what I'm looking for.

Re: Flame from Bill Gates Re: Windows Usability

#50

Post by sriramk » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 10:04 AM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #34

sriramk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just standard Outlook email behavior. It works pretty well for corporate email

No, it doesn't. It's used frequently in corporate mail systems. This doesn't mean it works well. Threaded mail clients FTW.

Stuff gets forwarded around, attached to various systems, etc. Having the entire thread, unmodified, has been a lifesaver for me more times than I can remember.