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The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#171

Post by KineticLensman »

cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK

I cracked some ribs three weeks ago and coughing / sneezing are really painful. I am keeping my mask on because I really don't want even a mild cough, for whatever reason.

More generally, the vaccines are not 100% effective, the virus can still be transmitted and spread. For lots of people, getting COVID is still life threatening, even if the average case is not as bad as it used to be.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#172

Post by rajin444 »

jfengel wrote: post #170
rajin444 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most are vaccinated, but they're still taking a risk Pre pandemic they took a risk every day as well, so it's a matter of acceptable risk, which I believe is what the article was focused on. What level of risk is that?

That existing risk was already at the limit of acceptability. New risk being added on pushes many past that limit. It's made worse by the fact that this additional risk is being left out of the discussion so often. People talk about what's good for the children and their parents and the economy, but not about what the teachers need. They're being treated as disposable, which exacerbates the perception of risk further…

So 0 covid is the only answer? I don't think 0 covid is possible. We would need vaccines that provide sterilizing immunity for that.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#173

Post by lamontcg »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #143
cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

>That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever? Our government loves to pat themselves on the back having 80% vac…

> Vaccine doesnt work.

80% vaccine efficacy. We were hoping for 50% so that's actually pretty good.

This is on par with "we had a snowstorm so climate change isn't real" levels of logic.

Abbott has a mild case and isn't sucking on ventilator.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#174

Post by josephcsible »

jrockway wrote: post #163
cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

Maybe "mask requirements" are a sign of society advancing? There was a time in human history when we didn't bathe regularly, or brush our teeth, or have sewage removal systems in cities, etc. Maybe the next step is "you know, breathing in particles that came from the other 600 people in this railcar is not so great". I certainly don't see a reason to go maskless on public transportation in the future. And, as supply…

You're saying society should keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#175

Post by sleepysysadmin »

dragonwriter wrote: post #153
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever? Our government loves to pat themselves on the back having 80% vac…

> But wait... Abbott is fully vaccinated. That's a huge issue. No, its not. While the rates are somewhat higher with Delta, breakthrough infections were always expected. The accines reduce the probability of getting COVID with similar exposure, they don't 100% prevent it. > You can't slam him banning masks and all that. Yes, you can. Even if schools weren't full of unvaccinated people, which they are, the existence o…

>No, its not. While the rates are somewhat higher with Delta, breakthrough infections were always expected. The accines reduce the probability of getting COVID with similar exposure, they don't 100% prevent it.

That's not my understanding, I'm in IT and not a biologist or whatever. So perhaps you can explain to me.

A vaccine is something that boosts/helps the immune system develop protection against the disease.

Measles vaccine means nobody got measles until antivaxers started spreading measles.

Yes there can be a portion of society which does not have an immune system for the vaccine to help or boost and therefore the vaccines aren't useful and doesn't work. Percentages will change per country/society. However, someone fully vaccinated in my mind is someone who is never going to be infectious. Therefore prevents it.

>Yes, you can. Even if schools weren't full of unvaccinated people, which they are, the existence of breakthrough infections would underline why banning mask mandates is a culpablr error.

The problem with covid is that it clearly divides directly down political lines. Perhaps Texas guy is politically motivated and making bad decisions. The problem is the opposite as well. CNBC is clearly attacking when it's clearly unreasonable to do so.

I have no pity at all for anti-vaxxers who get covid. I'm not in the USA, nor do I care about Texas.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#176

Post by tharne »

SamBam wrote: post #45
cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

Since no one under 16 has been vaccinated yet, about 70% of the population is vaccinated (44M out of 67M). That might be barely enough for herd immunity for some diseases, but the case numbers in the UK are still very high and trending back upward, showing that this isn't enough for herd immunity for Covid. Hospitalization rates are also back up to significantly higher than they were this time last year. And that's w…

> Since no one under 16 has been vaccinated yet, about 70% of the population is vaccinated (44M out of 67M).

This fact really bothers me. I feel like once adults got vaccinated we all spiked the football and said "F--k the kids, I got mine".

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#177

Post by nradov »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #152
001spartan wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Returning to normal is a terrible idea when COVID patients are overwhelming hospitals across the world. How can things be normal if our healthcare systems are nearing collapse? You might be willing to accept the risk of getting sick on your behalf, but by advocating a return to 'normal' before we have the capabilities to deal with this virus, you are advocating for putting even more stress on healthcare systems acros…

Politicians say this all the time. I doubt anything we can do can change this. Just build more hospitals. We have resolved the masks shortage, we will resolve the shortage of ventilators and hospitals also. We can even soften the shortage of medical personnel by directing the unemployed to paid full-time medical boot camps. I understand this is much easier said than done but we hardly have a choice if we actually wan…

There was never a real ventilator shortage. Doctors figured out quickly that mechanical ventilation does more harm than good for the vast majority of COVID-19 patients. It's only used on a few percent of hospitalized patients now.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/nhcs/intubation-ventilator-...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#178

Post by mywittyname »

hcurtiss wrote: post #156
001spartan wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Returning to normal is a terrible idea when COVID patients are overwhelming hospitals across the world. How can things be normal if our healthcare systems are nearing collapse? You might be willing to accept the risk of getting sick on your behalf, but by advocating a return to 'normal' before we have the capabilities to deal with this virus, you are advocating for putting even more stress on healthcare systems acros…

It seems one option is to increase hospital capacity. There should be ways to do this without needing more RNs and MDs.

That's not an option. Hospitals in many were already understaffed before the pandemic. And the pandemic has caused such a severe worker shortage that traveling RNs are getting paid upwards of $200/hr in remote parts of the USA.

The only way to deal with this pandemic is to vaccinate as many people as possible. It's the best way that we know of to reduce spread of, and the effects of catching covid-19.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#179

Post by bingohbangoh »

001spartan wrote: post #145
qwerty456127 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost sure 100% vaccination rate with the vaccines currently available won't change much. I hope I'm wrong. But there already are cases apparently confirming this. IMHO we should just return to normal, consider this a new kind of flu and deal with the fact it's more deadly. I always knew there is a chance a flu can kill me one day. I'm Ok with the fact the chance is higher now. My personal (apparently risky, I d…

Returning to normal is a terrible idea when COVID patients are overwhelming hospitals across the world. How can things be normal if our healthcare systems are nearing collapse? You might be willing to accept the risk of getting sick on your behalf, but by advocating a return to 'normal' before we have the capabilities to deal with this virus, you are advocating for putting even more stress on healthcare systems acros…

Are they really overwhelming hospitals?

This keeps being repeated but most hospitals operate at about 80% capacity as-is. Places in Tennessee and Florida are currently, with COVID-19, operating at about 80%. [0]

If we look at Israel, which has a very high vaccination rate, we see that they're supposedly running out of hospital space. [1] But the article linked doesn't say _anything about their actual numbers atm_ and points to a fiscal problem rather than a manpower problem.

There was a recent Science Magazine article that states that 13% of the hospitalized-and-vaccinated group are under 60. That amounts to 39 people in a country of 9 million. [2]

I've asked this before both here and elsewhere: If these vaccines aren't "good enough," what is? At what point does this become "zero COVID" in that "nobody can ever die from this disease again?"

[0]: this may have changed -- things are changing quickly -- so I'd be curious if you have any recent ([1]: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-s-public-hospital...

[2]: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-... -- and I took this from Louis Rossmann's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYtfT7HsJq0

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#180

Post by ksaun »

Thiez wrote: post #137
brown9-2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to talk about “real risk” then I think it’s only fair to ask you to define what that acceptable risk level is.

Almost 4000 children die each year from drowning in the USA, with double that having a non-fatal drowning [0]. Note that non-fatal drownings can cause long-term health problems. They haven't banned pools yet, so it follows that, as a country, the USA considers 4000 dead children an acceptable risk of having open water, such as rivers, ponds, and pools. And bath tubs, I suppose. Now with that number in mind, how many…

The information on that CDC page is misleading. While the page is about children, the text that mentions the 3960 annual drowning deaths does not specify "children," and the number seems to be across all age groups.

This source states ~800 children deaths/year to be children (in 2014). [0]

(I am not commenting on your overall point, just that statistic.)

For reference, the CDC notes annual total US children deaths (if defining "children" as [0] https://www.safekids.org/press-release/almost-800-kids-drown...

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/child-health.htm

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