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The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#91

Post by luffapi »

Thiez wrote: post #73
luffapi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are risks to all of us when we let millions of children act as a breeding and mutation substrate for the virus. I would think that would be blinding obvious to anyone with even a basic grasp of biology. It’s also completely unknown what the long term effects of the virus are. Edit: Disappointed but not surprised by the amount of anti-science on this site. I feel like a lot of people have let politics destroy th…

The other user was suggesting lifting restrictions would be equal to "fuck the kids". Clearly that is not the case. As for the risk of new mutations: if we were truly worried about that then perhaps the priority should be vaccinating the populations of poorer countries instead?

I don’t think that’s clear at all.

> As for the risk of new mutations: if we were truly worried about that then perhaps the priority should be vaccinating the populations of poorer countries instead?

Vaccinate everyone, there’s no shortage of vaccine. Remember when Bill Gates fought to stop the manufacture of vaccine in other countries? People like him are the enemy to a fully vaccinated population.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#92

Post by ericbarrett »

colordrops wrote: post #50
alphager wrote: post #37

> close to full vaccination, like the UK. Why do people not consider kids younger than 12yo as part of the population? MILLIONS of kids can't be vaccinated yet (but will hopefully come december). Any talk of lifting restrictions before march is basically a re-formulated "fuck the kids".

No it's not. There's still no evidence that there is any real risk to children. Please prove otherwise. Anecdotes and one in a million cases don't count.

"North Texas runs out of pediatric ICU beds amid Covid surge" (August 13): https://news.yahoo.com/north-texas-runs-pediatric-icu-175912...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#93

Post by HarryHirsch »

argvargc wrote: post #28
HarryHirsch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know? HIV hasn't evolved to be any less deadly in the 40 years it has been around. Instead, there's most excellent treatment available and people have changed their behaviour.

And despite killing ten times as many people as COVID, these changes were achieved without destroying small businesses and jobs, plunging millions into poverty (and likely later starvation), gross human rights violations and police brutality, and reintroduction of segregation into previously free democratic societies. (Just like with all other communicable diseases of modern times.) Go us.

You have to give it to the homosexuals - they started using condoms and shut down the clubs where you would have sex with ten different men every night. Meanwhile, in large tracts of the country we are still arguing if masks are a good idea.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#94

Post by king_magic »

colordrops wrote: post #50
alphager wrote: post #37

> close to full vaccination, like the UK. Why do people not consider kids younger than 12yo as part of the population? MILLIONS of kids can't be vaccinated yet (but will hopefully come december). Any talk of lifting restrictions before march is basically a re-formulated "fuck the kids".

No it's not. There's still no evidence that there is any real risk to children. Please prove otherwise. Anecdotes and one in a million cases don't count.

This is absolutely not true.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/child-covid-19-hospital...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#95

Post by qwerty456127 »

SamBam wrote: post #45
cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

Since no one under 16 has been vaccinated yet, about 70% of the population is vaccinated (44M out of 67M). That might be barely enough for herd immunity for some diseases, but the case numbers in the UK are still very high and trending back upward, showing that this isn't enough for herd immunity for Covid. Hospitalization rates are also back up to significantly higher than they were this time last year. And that's w…

I'm almost sure 100% vaccination rate with the vaccines currently available won't change much. I hope I'm wrong. But there already are cases apparently confirming this.

IMHO we should just return to normal, consider this a new kind of flu and deal with the fact it's more deadly. I always knew there is a chance a flu can kill me one day. I'm Ok with the fact the chance is higher now.

My personal (apparently risky, I don't recommend it to others) strategy is living an active social life to be in regular contact with the virus (while testing every now and then to make sure I don't spread it) so my immune system keeps on producing the natural antibodies (I also test for every couple of months).

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#96

Post by simonsarris »

hutzlibu wrote: post #71
cm2187 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These herd immunity thresholds assumed that vaccinated people do not transmit the virus, but it appears that they do. Vaccines seem to be very efficient at preventing complications, which is great and good enough to neutralise this virus. But they don't seem to have made a dent into this summer's cases numbers. It doesn't look like vaccines will prevent the virus from circulating. Hospitalisation rates have been pret…

"It doesn't look like vaccines will prevent the virus from circulating." Do you have some numbers? As far as I know, it indeed supresses the virus from circulating, it just doesn't stop it completely. Here in my area, which started early with broad vaccinations - the numbers are way down.

Israel also started early with broad vaccinations. Now compare latest waves in USA/GB/Israel:

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

For fun, add India, which has comparatively low vaccinations, where Delta began:

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#97

Post by leoedin »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #64
cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

Israel has close to full vaccination, yet cases are going up because immunity is falling again and there are new variants. It's understandable why the restrictions are back again.

But what's the end goal? Do we keep lockdown restrictions forever? The case fatality rate for a vaccinated population is really low. There must be an acceptable level - after all we don't lock down for other endemic viruses which also have non-zero CFRs. What is it? Have we reached it?

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#98

Post by argvargc »

nobleach wrote: post #74
argvargc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And despite killing ten times as many people as COVID, these changes were achieved without destroying small businesses and jobs, plunging millions into poverty (and likely later starvation), gross human rights violations and police brutality, and reintroduction of segregation into previously free democratic societies. (Just like with all other communicable diseases of modern times.) Go us.

Well, keep in mind that the transmission vector of HIV and SARS COVID are completely different. If we had found in the 80's that HIV was transmissible by simply breathing the same air as those infected, we'd likely have seen a similar response... without all the "work from home" benefits that we currently enjoy.

I doubt it. Pandemic preparedness, including for airborne diseases, was the same for decades until it was all thrown out the window to do something wildly different that had never been done before.

Which - evidently, as we're still having "lockdowns" and "resurgences" 1.5 years after that "two weeks to flatten the curve" experiment - didn't work.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#99

Post by firecall »

colordrops wrote: post #50
alphager wrote: post #37

> close to full vaccination, like the UK. Why do people not consider kids younger than 12yo as part of the population? MILLIONS of kids can't be vaccinated yet (but will hopefully come december). Any talk of lifting restrictions before march is basically a re-formulated "fuck the kids".

No it's not. There's still no evidence that there is any real risk to children. Please prove otherwise. Anecdotes and one in a million cases don't count.

This is not true of Delta strain.

Younger people, under 30, and children are getting it and ending up in hospital.

It’s widely reported here in Australia.

Children are at risk.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#100

Post by andyjohnson0 »

cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK.

There are almost no UK legal restrictions relating to covid. There are some rules about people returning from certain high risk countries. And unvaccinated people who test positive still have to self isolate. And that's about it.

Many people (like myself) still wear masks in busy indoor locations. And many are choosing to forego foreign holidays this summer.

Life here in the UK doesn't feel entirely normal, but it's much much nearer to pre-pandemic conditions than this time last year.

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