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The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#71

Post by hutzlibu »

cm2187 wrote: post #63
SamBam wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since no one under 16 has been vaccinated yet, about 70% of the population is vaccinated (44M out of 67M). That might be barely enough for herd immunity for some diseases, but the case numbers in the UK are still very high and trending back upward, showing that this isn't enough for herd immunity for Covid. Hospitalization rates are also back up to significantly higher than they were this time last year. And that's w…

These herd immunity thresholds assumed that vaccinated people do not transmit the virus, but it appears that they do. Vaccines seem to be very efficient at preventing complications, which is great and good enough to neutralise this virus. But they don't seem to have made a dent into this summer's cases numbers. It doesn't look like vaccines will prevent the virus from circulating. Hospitalisation rates have been pret…

"It doesn't look like vaccines will prevent the virus from circulating."

Do you have some numbers?

As far as I know, it indeed supresses the virus from circulating, it just doesn't stop it completely.

Here in my area, which started early with broad vaccinations - the numbers are way down.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#72

Post by hcurtiss »

luffapi wrote: post #58
colordrops wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. There's still no evidence that there is any real risk to children. Please prove otherwise. Anecdotes and one in a million cases don't count.

There are risks to all of us when we let millions of children act as a breeding and mutation substrate for the virus. I would think that would be blinding obvious to anyone with even a basic grasp of biology. It’s also completely unknown what the long term effects of the virus are. Edit: Disappointed but not surprised by the amount of anti-science on this site. I feel like a lot of people have let politics destroy th…

Given global vaccination rates, it will have abundant and plentiful opportunities for breeding and mutation forever. There is no vaccinating the entire globe for coronavirus. Certainly not in our lifetimes. And not given the declining effectiveness of the vaccines.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#73

Post by Thiez »

luffapi wrote: post #58
colordrops wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. There's still no evidence that there is any real risk to children. Please prove otherwise. Anecdotes and one in a million cases don't count.

There are risks to all of us when we let millions of children act as a breeding and mutation substrate for the virus. I would think that would be blinding obvious to anyone with even a basic grasp of biology. It’s also completely unknown what the long term effects of the virus are. Edit: Disappointed but not surprised by the amount of anti-science on this site. I feel like a lot of people have let politics destroy th…

The other user was suggesting lifting restrictions would be equal to "fuck the kids". Clearly that is not the case.

As for the risk of new mutations: if we were truly worried about that then perhaps the priority should be vaccinating the populations of poorer countries instead?

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#74

Post by nobleach »

argvargc wrote: post #28
HarryHirsch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know? HIV hasn't evolved to be any less deadly in the 40 years it has been around. Instead, there's most excellent treatment available and people have changed their behaviour.

And despite killing ten times as many people as COVID, these changes were achieved without destroying small businesses and jobs, plunging millions into poverty (and likely later starvation), gross human rights violations and police brutality, and reintroduction of segregation into previously free democratic societies. (Just like with all other communicable diseases of modern times.) Go us.

Well, keep in mind that the transmission vector of HIV and SARS COVID are completely different. If we had found in the 80's that HIV was transmissible by simply breathing the same air as those infected, we'd likely have seen a similar response... without all the "work from home" benefits that we currently enjoy.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#75

Post by cm2187 »

laputan_machine wrote: post #62
colordrops wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. There's still no evidence that there is any real risk to children. Please prove otherwise. Anecdotes and one in a million cases don't count.

It's not about children getting it and being ill, it's about children getting it and spreading it. This is the concept behind 'herd immunity'. If we can cut the chain, we mitigate older and people with weakened immune systems from getting it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

But if vaccinated people are also spreading it, I don't get the point of waiting for kids to be vaccinated.

The population at risk being vaccinated was the big deal, but that's done now (apart from those who refuse to be vaccinated, but then it is their problem).

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#76

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

blacktriangle wrote: post #55
cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

Yes, yes they do. And they're even starting to be honest about it, look at the press coming out of NZ and Scotland. Many of us called this the second the lockdowns started and we were right. Coronavirus is real, but it's nothing more than another SARS, H1N1, Hong Kong flu, etc. The only difference between now and then is now governments were prepped for a full on power grab.

> Coronavirus is real, but it's nothing more than another SARS, H1N1, Hong Kong flu, etc.

SARS in 2002-2004 killed 811 people. H1N1 killed 18,500 in 2009. Neither of those had the sort of mass lock-downs mitigating their spread that we are experiencing now. I don't know about you, but I can see a big difference.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#77

Post by argvargc »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #41
argvargc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And despite killing ten times as many people as COVID, these changes were achieved without destroying small businesses and jobs, plunging millions into poverty (and likely later starvation), gross human rights violations and police brutality, and reintroduction of segregation into previously free democratic societies. (Just like with all other communicable diseases of modern times.) Go us.

> And despite killing ten times as many people as COVID That's an INCREDIBLY disingenuous comparison considering that COVID-19 has been with us for less than two years. And, though I object to your characterization of said measures, extreme measures weren't taken because you couldn't catch it just via proximity. Also important to point out one big similarity - denial of both was used to dehumanize swathes of the popu…

Not really, at the rate death is declining overall COVID will almost certainly kill far fewer in the same timeframe.

And given differences in policy, and differences in resistance to them have not resulted in any discernible difference in result (ie, it's wild mess that makes no sense and more typically returns results opposite to expectation), it largely appears this would have been the case had we not ruined everything over it.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#78

Post by rgrieselhuber »

cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

Yes

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#79

Post by hutzlibu »

laputan_machine wrote: post #62
colordrops wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. There's still no evidence that there is any real risk to children. Please prove otherwise. Anecdotes and one in a million cases don't count.

It's not about children getting it and being ill, it's about children getting it and spreading it. This is the concept behind 'herd immunity'. If we can cut the chain, we mitigate older and people with weakened immune systems from getting it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Yes, but parent poster wrote: "Any talk of lifting restrictions before march is basically a re-formulated "fuck the kids"."

which is not honest in my opinion. The kids so far have suffered the most from corona - no school, no friends - no activities - yet had the least, to fear from it.

So vaccinating the kids is not really about saving the kids - it is about the older population.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#80

Post by colordrops »

laputan_machine wrote: post #62
colordrops wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. There's still no evidence that there is any real risk to children. Please prove otherwise. Anecdotes and one in a million cases don't count.

It's not about children getting it and being ill, it's about children getting it and spreading it. This is the concept behind 'herd immunity'. If we can cut the chain, we mitigate older and people with weakened immune systems from getting it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Did you already forget the comment that started this thread? This is assuming the rest of the population is vaccinated.
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