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Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

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Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

update: hit the jackpot the library is currently in use by Heroku/SalesForce to build deploy java apps (or something like that) https://github.com/heroku/java-buildpack/blob/master/go.mod I wonder what sort of settlement you could get if you were to send them a lawyer for real.

They will be happy to cease use of the code. The damages probably amount to $0. "Don't use this code, no seriously don't" isn't exactly an advertisement of the value it provide.

There could be many reasons for having an injunction against using code.

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#222
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is not confused, it's like an actually enforcable version of "use it at your own risk" because it includes legal risk. It's clever and funny

Gonna have to disagree that it's funny.

Why not? Do you feel entitled to a warranty?

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#223
post #95
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That said, > If you publish your source code in a public repository on GitHub, according to the Terms of Service, other users of GitHub have the right to view and fork your repository. https://docs.github.com/en/github/creating-cloning-and-archi...

The actual term (D.5 from https://docs.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-terms-o... ) > Any User-Generated Content you post publicly, including issues, comments, and contributions to other Users' repositories, may be viewed by others. By setting your repositories to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view and "fork" your repositories (this means that others may make their own copies of Content fro…

> Nowhere does it give you a license to _use_ the contents of the repository in your software. Nor does it allow you to publish the contents outside github

To clarify, I did not mean to say that it does; I merely wanted to make people aware of the fact that some "default" restrictions are lifted when you publish on GitHub (just like when I type this comment on HN).

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#224
What worries me the most about these comments is: 1) how many software developers that do not understand how licenses and copyright work 2) how many software developers that feel entitled to use someone else's code and default to feeling offended when they feel they've been mislead 3) how many software developers that are not focusing on the most important thing, which is how embarrassed you should be that you imported this code in your codebase to begin with.

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#225
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This is a failure to demonstrate how promoting language standards may result in increased discrimination. > It does that right now, no "may" about it. If language standards indeed cause discrimination, please demonstrate how. Otherwise this is a baseless claim. > I've literally had people tell that they assume someone is stupider if they use the "me" instead of "I" in an "and" clause. So you think if a standard En…

> If language standards indeed cause discrimination, please demonstrate how. Otherwise this is a baseless claim. That wasn't my claim. My claim was that prescriptive approaches to language facilitate and magnify discrimination and have historically frequently been used to justify and enforce discrimination. You can look at how regional UK dialects affect employability and education outcomes. You can look at the way s…

> You can look at how regional UK dialects affect employability and education outcomes.

If you apply for a job in China and you only speak broken Chinese, resembling a pidgin language, it’s not “discrimination” if you are not hired. Similarly, if you apply to a position where you are expected to speak standard English and you only speak a lesser known dialect, that is not discrimination either. It’s not meeting job requirements. Yes it’s unfortunate that those who don’t have the skill of speaking standard English cannot obtain those jobs, just as it’s unfortunate non-Chinese speakers cannot obtain jobs in Chinese-speaking areas. The good news is that we have brains that are capable of learning new skills.

> My claim was that prescriptive approaches to language facilitate and magnify discrimination and have historically frequently been used to justify and enforce discrimination.

This is just false. Discrimination is a social phenomenon that itself is causal to your so-called prescriptive approach to language, not the other way around. In other words, the pre-existing discriminatory attitude causes the exclusionary behavior in language not vice versa. It’s silly to blame racism/classism on the promotion of correct English. Especially when the existence of a standard for correct English makes it clear and unambiguous for new people entering the English-speaking world how they can most effectively communicate with existing English speakers.

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#226
post #25

I love that all the discussion here is about the license I wrote and not about the actual project, which is a completely terrible idea and something I created as a lark. Why did I not spell this out in the blog post? For my own amusement. I also think it shows that licenses really don't matter all that much as some people think, they are not computer code.

The issue here is that you're a well-poisoner, putting out code that can't be used, as a joke, while also making a popular blog post and making the software easy to use as a library. Now that it's being used, it's also hard for folks to remove your library and implement something similar without it being considered a derivative. Sure, it's funny, but it's a joke at the expense of everyone else. This is like going to…

If anything, it’s raising awareness of the fact that just because it’s on GitHub doesn’t mean it’s FOSS, and that developers need to pay attention to licensing before snatching someone’s work up for their own personal & commercial benefit.

In this case the license was silly, but if this library had been GPL, it’d still have been a massive violation by most of those big companies, and that’s something we need to pay more attention to.

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#227
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that you're not interested in suing anyone over this. However, you still don't give people permission to use, not even in small throwaway tests. Which is fair. But your blog post[0] language suggests that you are okay with and even incentivizes people trying this out (even if trying it out might be technically illegal, because it infringes your rights). I think you should have mentioned something about the l…

Pretty funny right?

I mean you trolled a lot of devs and they are now salty over this silly thing and uhmm I think it's my poor sense of humor but I don't usually find practical jokes that funny.

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#228
post #224

What worries me the most about these comments is: 1) how many software developers that do not understand how licenses and copyright work 2) how many software developers that feel entitled to use someone else's code and default to feeling offended when they feel they've been mislead 3) how many software developers that are not focusing on the most important thing, which is how embarrassed you should be that you import…

I wholeheartedly agree. It feels a bit like a debate about speed limits: "I'm really only a couple kph/mph over it. The speed limit here is stupid anyway."

I am however glad this issue came up. The author does not appear to want to screw anyone over legally on this - so why not take it as a lesson learned and go from there?

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#229
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damages would be loss of revenue. He was deprived of the ability to negotiate terms of use for payment. This is why the GPL is more developer friendly than other licenses. If a business doesn't like the GPL you can offer to relicense your code, ... for money. And money is the restitution you seek when the license is violated.

I'm curious how damages would be calculated in a case like this. Obviously you can't get away with saying "I would have charged them $10 billion for this code, so that's what they should owe me." But on the flipside, should they be able to say they wouldn't have been willing to pay anything for it, therefore they owe zero?

I am curious as well. Since it's not a typical work for hire relationship, it could be a (modest) percentage of profits, or a business contracting fee of ~$500k or so.

Re: Project includes a dependancy that has a license that forbids its use

#230
post #121
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's misleading to present the project as being for use by others and then forbid any use in the legal print?

Is it misleading to present a project as free and then have the (A)GPL license? Here I thought it was free, now suddenly there are all these conditions... The "legal print" in this case is five lines long, written in (contrary to most licenses) very plain english, located in the root of the repository, in a file named 'LICENSE.md'. It's not exactly hidden where a reasonable person might overlook it. "We didn't know"…

Normally such fact is advertised in the readme, and the github sidebar will recognise and display the title of such a license in the sidebar.

It's commonly understood that open source software may be copyleft.

I think not mentioning a license that says "No use permitted" amongst some instructions on how to use it is deceptive.

> "We didn't know" isn't a very convincing defense.

Good thing "mean", is a matter of subjective perception and not of law, then. Or do you suggest everything legal is automatically good?

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