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ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

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Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#201

Post by 01100011 »

s0rce wrote: post #181
01100011 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have to build a particle accelerator That's not exactly difficult. Particle accelerators are all over these days, from medical applications(radiotherapy with liniacs) to materials inspection(portable cyclotrons).

X-ray producing synchrotrons are generally pretty large and expensive. There has been thoughts of using them for lithography and microfabrication in the past (see LIGA) that haven't really panned out. There are companies working on more advanced laboratory sources, but mostly for analytical applications (EasyXAFS, Sigray). There is a company working on a lab scale synchrotron (lyncean tech).

Do you need to use a synchrotron? Is the radiation generated coherent or something? Otherwise why not use a liniac or cyclotron?

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#202

Post by apexalpha »

mongol wrote: post #193
royjacobs wrote: post #23

Ah yes, ASML. I have a number of friends and ex-colleagues who work there. Unsurprisingly, due to their importance, ASML are extremely well-known inside of the Netherlands. It's one of those companies that spun out of Philips Electronics and became very successful (NXP is another good example). A lot of research and development is still going on in the area where Philips had their research labs. If you're curious to…

What happened with Philips? As a consumer brand I think they have languished. I liked them a lot in the 80s-90s, now I avoid them.

They used to be what Samsung or LG is today, but couldn't keep up after the 90s. They invented the CD and DVD but after that went into decline.

They have a consumer side that still does lightning (Philips Hue is pretty big) but mostly focus on healthcare such as MRIs and Ventilators.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#203

Post by ragebol »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #116

Herein is described the most convenient manner to generate the precise wavelength of light required to print on EUV photomask: - A molten tin droplet drops into a vacuum - It's pulsed by a high-power (25kW) laser - Tin atoms are ionized, creating plasma - A precision ground concave mirror captures EUV radiation emitted by plasma - The Mirror transfers EUV to wafer (wavelength=13.5 nanometers, basically X-ray level, t…

Apparently, they zap the tin droplet with a soft pulse first to flatten it before hitting it with a big pulse to make the plasma.

A former colleague of mine worked on tuning the laser-hitting -droplet process. Happens inside a vacuum of course, but after some time the vacuum would always drop. Turns out that when you miss the droplet often enough and thus hit the steel walls of the chamber, eventually you'll punch through the walls. And not be able to hold a vacuum this way.

Not sure of just a tall story or true...

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#204

Post by rasz »

mongol wrote: post #193
royjacobs wrote: post #23

Ah yes, ASML. I have a number of friends and ex-colleagues who work there. Unsurprisingly, due to their importance, ASML are extremely well-known inside of the Netherlands. It's one of those companies that spun out of Philips Electronics and became very successful (NXP is another good example). A lot of research and development is still going on in the area where Philips had their research labs. If you're curious to…

What happened with Philips? As a consumer brand I think they have languished. I liked them a lot in the 80s-90s, now I avoid them.

Philips history in 6 chapters, written up by RF engineer with 30 years at Philips/NXP https://www.maximus-randd.com/technology-history.html TLDR Commodore level management. It ends with picking inferior but marginally cheaper third party components for TVs instead of using own internal products developed specifically for the role, in effect sinking R&D budget and destroying market leader position.

WSP (World Standard Pinning) "standardization" story with management naive dreams of selling own products in Asia without cannibalizing home European market while simultaneously moving Consumer Hardware Development to Asia .. where all the hardware was thereafter designed with Asian parts first was priceless.

Philips TV division deciding to second source, skipping Philips Tuners division thus eroding own company market share and profit. Then in turn Philips Tuners division commissioning a cheaper clone of Philips MOPLL from Siemens with a huge minimal volume quota, consequently eroding Philips Semiconductors market share by 25% and forcing Tuner division to manufacture inferior products with already obsolete part. Just beautiful, , Pure genius!

> The most devastating development, however, was purely internal and of severe structural impact.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#205

Post by mark_mart »

dvdgsng wrote: post #153
mark_mart wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a contractor who works for them, but have lots of friends working as direct employee. (Netherlands, software engineer mostly) They pay you 12+1 salaries (1=you get half of your salary as bonus 2 times per year, as vacation bonus). You get 40 days of vacation (Netherlands has 25 days of vacation standard, %99 of companies)so people are very relaxed. ASML is able relocate you from another country, moving all your…

Do you know if they offer remote jobs?

If you are contractor, it's possible (some contractor companies offer). But it also depends on position.

They are constructing a new building to gather all people working together. So I imagine next year or so they will be more against about remote.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#206

Post by InvaderFizz »

rivo wrote: post #139

A few highlights from a conversation with a friend who works for Zeiss and regularly deals with ASML (take this with a grain of salt, I may have misunderstood some of it and he also may not be an expert in all of these areas): - The lenses (actually mirrors for EUV) only demagnify by a factor of 4. So your wafer template is already extremely small and costs millions to produce. - 13.5nm is pretty much the smallest wa…

> - He said they're not very affected by the chip shortage

My guess as to why is that they probably have a very predictable/steady chip supply pipeline and are low enough volume and high enough margin that they can easily outbid anyone and it wouldn't have a meaningful impact on the bottom line.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#207

Post by poorna13 »

apexalpha wrote: post #202
mongol wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened with Philips? As a consumer brand I think they have languished. I liked them a lot in the 80s-90s, now I avoid them.

They used to be what Samsung or LG is today, but couldn't keep up after the 90s. They invented the CD and DVD but after that went into decline. They have a consumer side that still does lightning (Philips Hue is pretty big) but mostly focus on healthcare such as MRIs and Ventilators.

Lighting has also been spun off into a separate company (https://www.signify.com/global) which has a license to produce Philips branded products - similar to the TPVision - Philips TV arrangement. Philips itself is fully focused on healthcare these days (and some consumer adjacencies like Toothbrushes and Baby care stuff).

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#209

Post by bwilli123 »

ren_engineer wrote: post #61
erichocean wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US is already blocking them from exporting to China Which works until China invades Taiwan. Then what?

America pays the price for its short sighted hubris chasing profits and thinking we could turn China into a liberal democracy if we threw enough money at them

No, the long term goal was the same as that in relation to the USSR under Yeltsin. 1) Privatise State assets and 2) Create a billionaire class whose fealty was to Western Capitalism not the Russian state. The CCP saw this and acted accordingly.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#210

Post by xiphias2 »

janmo wrote: post #173

This makes me wonder, why don't they produce semiconductors themselves instead of selling the machines to produce them?

It could be done with a merger with TSMC (or Samsung), but at this scale these companies are critical for the countries themselves. A merger like this would be extremely political.
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