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PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

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Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#191
post #188
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to make it take any network actions, but even if you wanted to do that you could just use TLS. It would easily blend in with all the other services that use TLS as part of their normal operation.

https://serverfault.com/questions/574405/tcpdump-server-hell...

Won't be possible with ESNI, and regardless you could just use an inconspicuous domain name, for example by piggybacking on a common cloud service.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Text messages, maybe photos

> Text messages Is that from apps like WhatsApp and Telegram? And SMS? What about email? What happens if you'd say that you can't, because it's your employer's laptop and data, and it's confidential?

Customs will confiscate your laptop, then.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#193
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Text messages, maybe photos

Which countries do this? I am pretty sure TSA can only ask you to demonstrate the device functions as intended, usually by powering it on.

US customs will do this, not TSA. It is only when entering the country.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use Emergency SOS on your iPhone https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208076

There's also (for Aus users), Emergency+ https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.threesixty...

Also for iOS https://apps.apple.com/au/app/emergency-plus/id691814685

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#195
post #71
post #31

The "guy with the gun" narrative comes up a lot, so this seems to counter that? I love the concept. It seems like something that would work well in a movie but fail miserably in real life.

This is really good, I've had a gun pointed at my head more than enough times with all my bitcoins wiped, finally a solution to my every day problem.

I got a chuckle out of this. Only the paranoid HODL.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#196
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the legal implications, but if the duress password unlocks your device and simply deletes a directory or two, and the officer only asked you to unlock your device (without a warrant, by the way), how is that lying?

Despite rumors to the contrary, the police aren’t stupid. They are trained to ask questions in ways that elicit a confession or falsehood. The simplest example is asking “Do you know why I pulled you over?”. Typically, people spontaneously confess to speeding, sometimes they break down and admit that someone is wrapped up in a rug in the trunk. The courts have consistently ruled that customs is different and you can…

This reminds me of a physics joke:

"Dr Heizenburg, do you know how fast you were driving?"

"No, but I know exactly where I am"

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using #3 could land you in jail indefinitely in the UK I believe: if they don’t believe you forgot the password, they can interpret that as a refusal to give them the password (or unlock the computer), and jail you for this… until you give them the password. Which you can’t, because there is no password at this point. So either you admit that you just wiped your computer with the panic password, or you can shut up an…

So in the UK they can put you in prison for life without being charged or found guilty of any crime unless “they believe you”? Any source on that?

It's a theoretical thing under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, IIR. It hasn't been tested. In practice under the law it'd probably be a stretch under a sensible judiciary since you can't prove a negative and thus can't prove you don't know something.

In a number of countries there is a defined offense, like in Australia if they don't believe you they can jail you for six months under the Cybercrime Act, 2001, or possibly 2 years (failure to obey a court order under the Crimes Act, 1914).

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#198
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar false trigger trying to make an international call from our office phones. I didn’t know the exact incantation of the prefix, but knew it was 9 for an outside line and at home I used 011 then the country code. That didn’t seem to work, so I thought maybe I needed to drop the zero, resulting in me inadvertently dialing 911 and hanging up when that didn’t give me the dial tone I expected. I found the ri…

I always find it crazy when systems make you dial 9 for an outside line, for this very reason. Did the same thing myself my first week in college. Got the police. Told them what I did and I could hear the eye-roll on the other end of the line, and was told I was the third person that day.

We stopped extensions since there were multiple exchanges being used on campus so you have to dial someone's entire number. But, you will have to dial 9 and 1 and then the number. Everyone has externally accessible phone numbers so why are we still dialling 91 when youve got to dial the whole thing anyway?

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#199
post #23

What I never quite understand is how this can work in practice. When someone is under real duress, they do not always behave in a logical way and may be too stressed to remember certain details like a password that they never use...

I completely agree. I have long passphrases. The only way I can imagine remembering a duress passphrase is to make it slightly different in some way. So that means I'd have to keep updating my duress passphrase alongside my regular passphrase. Either way I love this idea and I might actually start using it. I'm just trying to figure out how to set a practical passphrase I will be able to remember. My passphrases gene…

Interesting idea. I find that it's pretty hard to modify the end of a password though, I'm likely to press enter rather than add anything else. Probably a good idea to change the first character, so you have the rest of the password to remember that you're supposed to do that.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#200

Training is very important in duress systems. I once worked in a place with a keypad duress code on the security system. If you prefixed your security PIN with NN-, it was the duress version of the code and would trigger a silent alarm. This was setup long-ago, and not communicated. One night, the keypad was acting glitchy. Partially out of frustration (countdown is running), and partially to test, I ended up acciden…

Out of interest, were you arrested?

As part of a duress protocol — where your extortioner is likely observing you — law enforcement would be required to go through the motions of arresting you and taking you offsite. You can expect to be held for X hours regardless of whether they believed you had simply made a mistake.

Long and unavoidable administrative delays make it much harder for villains to subvert protocols. See also time-delay bank vaults and mandatory two-week vacations for pension fund managers, where they are locked out of corpnet.

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