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George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

nclalegal.org

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Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#101

Post by javagram »

stmfreak wrote: post #11
gizmo686 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC reccomends that adults over 50 who might have had chicken pox get the Shingrix (Shingles) vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/public/shingrix/in...

The CDC has been a fountain of bad science during this past year. Some of us wonder about the veracity of all their prior recommendations now.

You can always check overseas scientists’ recommendations as a cross check.

Looks like the UK NHS recommends the shingles vaccine for all 70-79 year olds for instance. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/shingles-vaccinat...

France recommends for ages 65 to 74 https://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/french-national-h...

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#102

Post by criticaltinker »

woofie11 wrote: post #96
criticaltinker wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's bold of you to keep raising this "anti-vaccination" point By reducing my statements to simply "anti-vaccination" you're missing the entire nuance of the argument. I've cited substantial scientific literature which supports the fact that leaky vaccines combined with COMPULSORY mass vaccination can have unexpected and dangerous consequences in terms of viral evolution. Vaccines are a powerful tool and help save…

Spirited and informed debate: Virtually everything I see suggests that the effect is bimodal: 1. Everyone gets vaccinated at the same time, and the disease goes away. Not a lot of disease means not a lot of mutations. 2. No one gets vaccinated, and there is no such effect. If immune escape is an issue, it seems like the solution would be 100% MANDATORY vaccinations, and to perform vaccinations all at once, region by…

> Everyone gets vaccinated at the same time [...] region by region, so there are no populations which mix vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals

This is logistically impossible and completely unrealistic. If you can find any literature or any experts suggesting that this is feasible, please share.

> and the disease goes away

Even if we did manage do achieve what you suggested, the current vaccines do not guarantee sterilizing immunity. This means that even vaccinated individuals can be infected and transmit the virus, which still gives plenty of opportunity for the virus to mutate and eventually evolve to escape the immune response in the theoretical 100% vaccinated population.

> I can't see how making vaccinations non-compulsory will do anything good

There are many viral elimination strategies that complement vaccination - for example multi-drug treatment using widely available and existing medicines [1][2][3][4][5]. The key is that using a diverse set of strategies helps reduce the possibility and risk of vaccine resistance.

> I think you gave a very strong argument FOR compulsory vaccination.

I appreciate the spirited discussion but your comment does not seem particularly well informed - it completely disregards the concerns and arguments put forth by experts in the field, which I've outlined in my previous comments.

[1] Multifaceted highly targeted sequential multidrug treatment of early ambulatory high-risk SARS-CoV-2 infection (COVID-19) https://scholarlycommons.henryford.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a...

[2] Clinical outcomes after early ambulatory multidrug therapy for high-risk SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) infection https://rcm.imrpress.com/EN/article/downloadArticleFile.do?a...

[3] Early multidrug treatment of SARS-CoV-2 infection (COVID-19) and reduced mortality among nursing home (or outpatient/ambulatory) residents https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03069...

[4] Multidrug treatment for COVID-19 https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ddt/advpub/0/advpub_202...

[5] Ivermectin in combination with doxycycline for treating COVID-19 symptoms: a randomized trial https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33983065/

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#104

Post by quetzlbazaar »

JohnMunsch wrote: post #97

"New Civil Liberties Alliance" That's hysterical. We're going to be trying to present ourselves like we're similar to the ACLU, but you know, the bigoted and science ignorant version. I wonder how Conservapedia is doing these days.

[dead]

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#105

Post by elurg »

ampgt wrote: post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

Rejecting vaccination endangers other so it should always be mandatory, except on health grounds.

Religion exemptions exist only because of the political power of religious groups. They should be abolished.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#106

Post by cosmotic »

threatofrain wrote: post #62
ampgt wrote: post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

Hasn't it been this way since forever? Firstly, the US has always granted special exceptions to religion for many public policy requirements. You can complain about how it's unfair, but it's likely that the public needle of opinion won't budge past a threshold within this lifetime. Secondly, there have already been widespread medical requirements for all sorts of aspects of public life, and this hasn't been controver…

We should at least try to budge that needle. As long as that argument is used, it won't budge. We gotta budge it despite the argument.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#107

Post by criticaltinker »

loxias wrote: post #70
ampgt wrote: post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

> "How did we get to a point..." Every day, we all make tradeoffs as part of the price to pay for living in society. This is not a new thing. (and I assert it's counterproductive and anti-social behavior (harmful to society, the opposite of pro-social, not meaning "introverted") to assert that it is.) I can't build a DIY rocket powered car and drive it around town. It might hurt people, regardless of my intentions or…

> being un-vaccinated will eventually hurt people (by increasing transmission, and hastening the onset of a disastrous mutation)

Your statement is missing the sorely needed nuance that individuals with immunity acquired through natural infection are at least equally well protected as vaccinated individuals. That is the consensus in the scientific consensus literature right now.

This fact is the central argument of the lawsuit presented in the OP.

It's imperative to move beyond the dualistic framing of these discussions as "vaccinated versus unvaccinated". At this point it's borderline misinformation to continue with such rhetoic.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#108

Post by slackfan »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #18
ampgt wrote: post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

How did we get to the point where so many people would rather risk death and the death of many others than receive a free vaccine? They’re putting themself and all peoples that interact with them at serious risk.

Free? I take it you pay no taxes?

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#109

Post by selimthegrim »

javagram wrote: post #99

I support vaccine mandates (best way to move society past the pandemic), but an exemption for those with healthy immune systems who can prove via an antibody test or previous positive Covid-19 PCR test that they have naturally developed COVID antibodies after surviving an infection makes sense to me. In the 19th century, yellow fever survivors were considered to be “acclimated citizens” who were more eligible for job…

This created immense social divisions in cities like New Orleans, and opponents of "immunity passports" are wary of this.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#110

Post by jokethrowaway »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #18
ampgt wrote: post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

How did we get to the point where so many people would rather risk death and the death of many others than receive a free vaccine? They’re putting themself and all peoples that interact with them at serious risk.

The people who are worried about the risk of covid can take a vaccine and be safe
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