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PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

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Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#111

Post by hirundo »

yosito wrote: post #106
Spooky23 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, at minimum you’re lying to a federal agent. Never a good idea.

I don't know the legal implications, but if the duress password unlocks your device and simply deletes a directory or two, and the officer only asked you to unlock your device (without a warrant, by the way), how is that lying?

Even if it isn't lying, it's destruction of evidence. 18 U.S. Code 1519:

> Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#112

Post by INTPenis »

als0 wrote: post #23

What I never quite understand is how this can work in practice. When someone is under real duress, they do not always behave in a logical way and may be too stressed to remember certain details like a password that they never use...

I completely agree. I have long passphrases.

The only way I can imagine remembering a duress passphrase is to make it slightly different in some way.

So that means I'd have to keep updating my duress passphrase alongside my regular passphrase.

Either way I love this idea and I might actually start using it. I'm just trying to figure out how to set a practical passphrase I will be able to remember. My passphrases generally are in muscle memory after having entered them for a few days.

Edit: A simple system I just came up with is to use one of the numbers in the passphrase and increment it by one to indicate each level of duress.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#113

Post by Spooky23 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #28
intellix wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying if I'm held at gunpoint or forced to surrender my password at the US airport that a password to clear my account of anything would be useless? Neither of them know anything about me. It reminds me of the Trezor hardware wallet that allows you to have multiple passwords into your account. If your forced to give access you can log into the version with little in it. Nobody knows that you have secondary…

If you're held under gunpoint, that script that wipes your entire hard drive will only make your day worse. AFAIK if you actually get detained and questioned at airports, your drive will already get imaged before any password is even tried. You may be able to get away with this on a mobile device where this feature isn't generally expected (because who uses Linux on a smartphone in the first place). I always wonder a…

It’s silly nerd porn.

The “real” problem is either: (a) You know the authorities want access to your data because , and you travel across a border with it. (b) You possess sensitive information and are not aware of law enforcement’s desire to get it; (c) You’re swept up at random; (d) You’re a criminal, or carry a paper trail of potential illegal activity.

Solutions:

(a) Means you are stupid. The only way to win is not to play.

(b) Means you either didn’t follow your employer’s security guidelines or aren’t aware of the risks associated with whatever is on your device. You can’t solve that problem without understanding that.

(c) You should use discretion re: what you cross a border with and either accept the risk or do something else.

(d) Don’t really care. See (a).

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#114

Post by lisnake »

luismedel wrote: post #18
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #7

It's a very cool idea, but I think it would be most useful if applied to things like phones. I suspect most people pressed for passwords, are using a GUI system.

Exactly. It would be great to have a secondary pin (or my middle finger fingerprint, for example) in my phone to enter in a dummy environment with a few games, some family pics and so.

The feature exactly like that exists in Xiaomi phones. It's called Second space, and basically allows you to have second profile with different apps or accounts. Interesting thing is that you can set it up to open when unlocking the phone with specific fingerprint. The idea is to fill that Second space with dummy info, and unlock it with your little finger, for example (or vice versa, use it for sensitive information). Obviously, it wouldn't fool thorough phone scan (and if you dig deep enough in the settings you can see if the feature is enabled) but can be useful at quick cursory scans, like if you need to provide your phone at the border

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#115

Post by Spooky23 »

yosito wrote: post #106
Spooky23 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, at minimum you’re lying to a federal agent. Never a good idea.

I don't know the legal implications, but if the duress password unlocks your device and simply deletes a directory or two, and the officer only asked you to unlock your device (without a warrant, by the way), how is that lying?

Despite rumors to the contrary, the police aren’t stupid. They are trained to ask questions in ways that elicit a confession or falsehood.

The simplest example is asking “Do you know why I pulled you over?”. Typically, people spontaneously confess to speeding, sometimes they break down and admit that someone is wrapped up in a rug in the trunk.

The courts have consistently ruled that customs is different and you can be searched without a warrant. Don’t cross borders with contraband or evidence of criminal acts/dissident identity/your email correspondence with foreign agents/etc.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#116

Post by squarefoot »

dheera wrote: post #73
luismedel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It would be great to have a secondary pin (or my middle finger fingerprint, for example) in my phone to enter in a dummy environment with a few games, some family pics and so.

I think on Android you can set up multiple users.

I don't think they hide their existence from each other however. If they're like Unix users, then one might see something like /home/user1 /home/user2 /home/user3, etc. so that all usernames would be clearly visible and the user could be then forced to reveal all passwords. The aim is to obtain plausible deniability, that is logging in as the safest user according to the situation, while at the same time hiding all others.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#117

Post by ljm »

nudpiedo wrote: post #51
jeroenhd wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're held under gunpoint, that script that wipes your entire hard drive will only make your day worse. AFAIK if you actually get detained and questioned at airports, your drive will already get imaged before any password is even tried. You may be able to get away with this on a mobile device where this feature isn't generally expected (because who uses Linux on a smartphone in the first place). I always wonder a…

Why not honeypot into a docker with fake data? Everyone would be happy (during a first moment). Sure if the attacks t is well informed then they will double check whether the target they got in is real or not.

"Okay okay! The password is hunter2, go on and try it, just don't shoot me!"

Bad guy types in honeypot password

    A new update to Docker is available.
    Restart now to apply the update
    or subscribe to a Pro account
    to delay this update.
"Oh, bugger."

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#118

Post by yosito »

hirundo wrote: post #111
yosito wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the legal implications, but if the duress password unlocks your device and simply deletes a directory or two, and the officer only asked you to unlock your device (without a warrant, by the way), how is that lying?

Even if it isn't lying, it's destruction of evidence. 18 U.S. Code 1519: > Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed u…

Would that apply to a warrantless search?

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#119

Post by canada_dry »

dheera wrote: post #73
luismedel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It would be great to have a secondary pin (or my middle finger fingerprint, for example) in my phone to enter in a dummy environment with a few games, some family pics and so.

I think on Android you can set up multiple users.

I'd love that feature (android 9+) if it allowed me to install some of the gazillion apps (e.g. every bloody fast food place that only has deals via their app) but restricts them from accessing my real user contacts, emails, msgs, gps/location, etc.

Blackberry phones had this feature and it was pretty bulletproof.

Re: PAM Duress – Alternate passwords for panic situations

#120

Post by leephillips »

yosito wrote: post #87

Comments are full of gunpoint scenarios, but I think a far more likely scenario for most HN readers is law enforcement / customs agents asking you to unlock your device during travel or some other random checkpoint so they can scan it. In that case, I doubt the officer would even have a clue about the use of a duress password to selectively and silently delete some private data. I think the biggest risk would be that…

That is a gunpoint scenario.
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