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The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#11

Post by dance-me »

nickloewen wrote: post #3

The article provides evidence to support the claim made in the headline, but there are important caveats included at the end: > The death rate was between three and four times that of Denmark, and nearly 10 times those of Finland and Norway - suggesting Swedes died that didn’t need to. > And Dr Bhatt does not think another, non-Nordic country such as Britain could have copied Sweden’s policies and got the same result…

If you're going to quote that, you should add the directly relevant information from the other side:

* "But that death rate is lower than the average for the European Union as a whole (1,684), and well below those of France, Spain, Italy and the UK"

* Dr Bhatt concedes "it worked for Sweden"

* Dr Bhatt is "one of the team at Imperial College who pushed the UK's lockdown strategy"

That last detail is important. Of course he has to say it couldn't have worked in the UK. If he said anything else, that would become the story. What's remarkable is that someone in his position is conceding as much as he has.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#12

Post by spookthesunset »

whiddershins wrote: post #9

While many people might point out that Sweden did in fact have more deaths, the verdict on that is still out. They are getting far fewer cases and deaths than many other areas now, and have been for many weeks. Couple that with the not-lost social interactions and economy etc, and the fact that this was always (more or less) every country’s pandemic plan before we changed our mind for covid, and it becomes a troublin…

A lot of people think what we did was part of some plan but nope. If you go back and read various pandemic plans you’ll see we did basically the exact opposite of what they recommended.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#13

Post by [deleted] »

dmitriid wrote: post #7

- Significantly higher mortality than immediate neighbors - Economy suffered the same as neighbors, and the government was quick to help big companies like Volvo (which immediately paid dividends to shareholders), but small businesses couldn't get their voices heard (even not-so-small businesses like airports) Alternative history re-writers already hail this as the greatest achievement ever.

[deleted]

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#14

Post by sergiosgc »

whiddershins wrote: post #9

While many people might point out that Sweden did in fact have more deaths, the verdict on that is still out. They are getting far fewer cases and deaths than many other areas now, and have been for many weeks. Couple that with the not-lost social interactions and economy etc, and the fact that this was always (more or less) every country’s pandemic plan before we changed our mind for covid, and it becomes a troublin…

When Sweden decided for no lock-downs, we knew very little about the virus. It was effectively a jump into the unknown.

Even if the decision proves beneficial, it was an error, in the knowledge context of March 2020.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#15

Post by wwweston »

whiddershins wrote: post #9

While many people might point out that Sweden did in fact have more deaths, the verdict on that is still out. They are getting far fewer cases and deaths than many other areas now, and have been for many weeks. Couple that with the not-lost social interactions and economy etc, and the fact that this was always (more or less) every country’s pandemic plan before we changed our mind for covid, and it becomes a troublin…

We’re done with the death comparisons over distancing measures — we’ve been past the point where that was in the running for most effective intervention for months now. If Sweden fared poorly during the time it was true, that’s the conclusion. We’re in the phase where the comparisons are basically about social/logistic/resource issues for vaccine uptake.

Also, the idea that the playbook has always been low-distance intervention for pathogens of similar impact is wrong.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#16

Post by nradov »

nickloewen wrote: post #3

The article provides evidence to support the claim made in the headline, but there are important caveats included at the end: > The death rate was between three and four times that of Denmark, and nearly 10 times those of Finland and Norway - suggesting Swedes died that didn’t need to. > And Dr Bhatt does not think another, non-Nordic country such as Britain could have copied Sweden’s policies and got the same result…

Population density is meaningless for countries as a whole. Most of Sweden is wilderness where hardly anyone lives. Swedes mostly live in cities, just like Brits.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#17

Post by warning26 »

What I find particularly interesting is that Sweden wasn't the only country that did this -- Brazil also did a no-lockdown strategy, and it was basically a disaster there.

Evidently, there must have been some other factors at play besides the boolean of lockdown true/false. Better healthcare, maybe?

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#18

Post by weego »

sergiosgc wrote: post #14
whiddershins wrote: post #9

While many people might point out that Sweden did in fact have more deaths, the verdict on that is still out. They are getting far fewer cases and deaths than many other areas now, and have been for many weeks. Couple that with the not-lost social interactions and economy etc, and the fact that this was always (more or less) every country’s pandemic plan before we changed our mind for covid, and it becomes a troublin…

When Sweden decided for no lock-downs, we knew very little about the virus. It was effectively a jump into the unknown. Even if the decision proves beneficial, it was an error, in the knowledge context of March 2020.

Assuming that in any give situation, the only correct decision in the absence of any knowledge is the most conservative one. Which this would disprove and thus the argument is provably false.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#19

Post by adevx »

Add to this that babies born during lockdown have found to have a significant lower IQ.

“It’s not subtle by any stretch,” said Deoni. “You don’t typically see things like that, outside of major cognitive disorders.”

I think we vastly underestimate the severe long-term effects of lockdowns.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/12/children-born-...

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#20

Post by marjoripomarole »

warning26 wrote: post #17

What I find particularly interesting is that Sweden wasn't the only country that did this -- Brazil also did a no-lockdown strategy, and it was basically a disaster there. Evidently, there must have been some other factors at play besides the boolean of lockdown true/false. Better healthcare, maybe?

Not true. Many Brazilian cities and states had lockdown measures at various times this past 20 months.
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