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ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

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Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#31

Post by sbarre »

seedless-sensat wrote: post #8
hobs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely dont understand this comment - twitter is already pretty noisy - why would it "go in the way of pinterest"?

You need to login to show the whole thread. I hit the same wall. Twitter was already a terrible medium for these kinds of posts, now it just got worse.

Someone posted a third-party thread-unroll link elsewhere in the discussion, I don't think that required a login?

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#32

Post by Fronzie »

rapsey wrote: post #26

So what does TSMC then do that no one else can replicate if they use these machines?

Calibration and following working procedures. The lithography machines have endless knobs to tune. It has to be done well to get a decent yield out of a factory.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#33

Post by shadilay »

hiram112 wrote: post #25
sneak wrote: post #20

Twitter won't show complete threads now without an account. :( Twitter accounts basically de facto require a phone number, or they get suspended.

Yep, I feel bad for many of the less technical "rubes" who still believe they're somewhat anonymous on the internet if they, e.g. use Incognito (which Google went out of their way to market as such), or buy some dubious VPN service, or use disposable emails on Reddit, Twitter, etc. accounts. You are simply not anonymous on any site you visit or search you make or place you go with your phone. The tech giants and thei…

I think it's a matter of the data lords not yet playing their hand. We know they have this data but they haven't used it yet in any high profile case. They're just still in the extend phase.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#34

Post by woudsma »

rapsey wrote: post #26

So what does TSMC then do that no one else can replicate if they use these machines?

Apparently the machines are pretty hard to replicate, the company (ASML) has had to deal with a couple of corporate espionage cases in the past[0].

[0]: https://nos.nl/artikel/2280228-wat-heeft-de-chinese-overheid... (in Dutch)

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#35

Post by rapsey »

Fronzie wrote: post #32
rapsey wrote: post #26

So what does TSMC then do that no one else can replicate if they use these machines?

Calibration and following working procedures. The lithography machines have endless knobs to tune. It has to be done well to get a decent yield out of a factory.

Seems a bit simplified...

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#36

Post by devoutsalsa »

I was thinking that it’s inefficient to transport equipment from the Netherlands to mostly Asia, but any place they’d be located would be importing part from around the world. And the cost to ship one of these things is probably a rounding error in the price.

It’d be interesting for them to partner with Antonov to build a second An-225. Maybe the economics would make sense instead of needing to ship via multiple 747s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#37

Post by rapsey »

woudsma wrote: post #34
rapsey wrote: post #26

So what does TSMC then do that no one else can replicate if they use these machines?

Apparently the machines are pretty hard to replicate, the company (ASML) has had to deal with a couple of corporate espionage cases in the past[0]. [0]: https://nos.nl/artikel/2280228-wat-heeft-de-chinese-overheid... (in Dutch)

What I meant was TSMC uses these machines. Anyone else (except the Chinese I guess?) can also use these machines. What is the TSMC secret sauce that no one else can match?

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#38

Post by hollerith »

seedless-sensat wrote: post #8
hobs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely dont understand this comment - twitter is already pretty noisy - why would it "go in the way of pinterest"?

You need to login to show the whole thread. I hit the same wall. Twitter was already a terrible medium for these kinds of posts, now it just got worse.

I didn't need to log in: I got the rest of the thread by following the link "see rest of this thread". That link though is easy to miss, what with being somewhere mid-page and being surrounded by elements that are visually much louder, and I, too, wish that no one here would submit or upvote links to Twitter.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#39

Post by cinntaile »

Bootvis wrote: post #17
hughrr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Only time that happened was in East Germany and it didn’t work out too good.

It’s quite a bit more nuanced. I recommend reading some work by Mariana Mazzucato to get some perspective. https://www.google.com/search?q=mariana%20mazzucato

Which book would you recommend?

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#40

Post by moonbas3 »

dataflow wrote: post #30

Can someone explain why Intel needs TSMC to make their chips? Why can't they just buy ASML's machines and use them to make their own chips?

Intel already has a fab which makes it's own chips. They can print, their problem is the design process on smaller nodes.
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