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EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

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Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#191

Post by SCUSKU »

istingray wrote: post #178
SCUSKU wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can I, as an individual, do to protect my digital privacy then? Would that mean ditching the Apple ecosystem, and going full linux laptop & phone? As much as I would love to buy a pinephone, they just don't seem like a truly viable alternative...

There's been a few relevant threads on how to switch. I have these two handy since I started them: Non-surveillance phones: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28164208 Non-surveillance laptops: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28216287

Thank you! These are both great posts.

Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#192

Post by websites2023 »

EFF lost credibility on this issue when their first statement conflated the iMessage safety for kids feature with the CSAM scanning. It’s clear that they are willing to fearmonger to raise money and aren’t committed to the cause of educating users and advocating a nuanced position. I cancelled my recurring donation.

Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#193

Post by websites2023 »

contingencies wrote: post #156

Screw Apple. Walked in to Huaqiangbei with an Ubuntu USB stick yesterday to test a bunch of laptops and ensure all the hardware worked. Bought a Lenovo. Screw Apple.

Lenovo? After Superfish? Interesting choice.

Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#195

Post by contingencies »

websites2023 wrote: post #193
contingencies wrote: post #156

Screw Apple. Walked in to Huaqiangbei with an Ubuntu USB stick yesterday to test a bunch of laptops and ensure all the hardware worked. Bought a Lenovo. Screw Apple.

Lenovo? After Superfish? Interesting choice.

Had a look at online pricing: couldn't order System76 to China without huge cost and long shipping time.

Basically all electronics manufacturers have bad software now. It's assumed and rampant. Firmware on TVs, preinstalled apps on phones and tablets. You can't buy current-grade gear for a reasonable price without unwanted muck.

As it stands I still had to pay the Windows tax.

Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#196

Post by simondotau »

mijamo wrote: post #166
simondotau wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as acceptable as it is, you are still a spy and the app is spyware. I vehemently disagree that a feature could be classed as spyware if it clearly and unambiguously declares exactly what it's going to do prior offering a choice whether or not to do it. By that logic, the mere presence of a "report phishing" button in any cloud email service would be sufficient to declare it as spyware. But fine, whatever. You'r…

I would have you know that in some countries this would be illegal. A child has a right to private conversation just like any other person in many law systems. And yes it is obviously a spyware. The report phishing analogy is also completely wrong because it does not include any surveillance. You report the phishing and send the message to some authority. It is the same as going to the police after receiving a threat…

You appear to be confused, or conflating this with something else. None of that describes the system Apple has implemented for iMessage. If the child doesn't want the adult to see anything, that's a choice available to the child.

Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#197

Post by simondotau »

LocalH wrote: post #172
dwaite wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I detested how few rights I had as a child. That is called being a teenager, I think.

Minors deserve no privacy? Is that what you're saying?

If you're talking about teenagers, I would say there's valid debate to be had. Minors, hell no. There's no debate. Parents are entitled to know—I'd personally go further and say a responsibility to know—what's going on in their life.

Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#198

Post by simondotau »

odessacubbage wrote: post #160
simondotau wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as acceptable as it is, you are still a spy and the app is spyware. I vehemently disagree that a feature could be classed as spyware if it clearly and unambiguously declares exactly what it's going to do prior offering a choice whether or not to do it. By that logic, the mere presence of a "report phishing" button in any cloud email service would be sufficient to declare it as spyware. But fine, whatever. You'r…

once given a device, a child's technical literacy will quickly surpass that of their guardian and as such, any form of 'protection' will be just as quickly circumvented. there is no technological panacea that will keep your child safe because that is not how predation happens in the real world.

This was certainly our experience when we were children. Near universal, I'd wager. But I don't think it's nearly as true for parents born in the eighties and nineties.

And to the extent that it might be true, it's still not a valid excuse for objecting to the existence of any such tools.

Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#199

Post by simondotau »

mijamo wrote: post #167
slownews45 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just such a crazy position. If I buy a car it doesn't matter that I own it? If I rent it to you I can't set the terms of that rental? This is just nuts from the EFF.

You have the fructus but no longer the usus and associated rights. If you own an apartment it does not give you a right to set up webcams to look at the tenants.

You do if those "tenants" are minors.

See: baby monitors.

Re: EFF Joins Global Coalition Asking Apple CEO Tim Cook to Stop Phone-Scanning

#200

Post by simondotau »

tekknik wrote: post #184
slownews45 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent paid for the device, don't they then own it? Or can kids sign up for phone plans and buy $1,200 devices these days? Normally, if I buy a device, I want control. If I chose to get alerted to porn being sent to my 10 year old - that should be permitted. I don't care if the sender hasn't given consent, I don't give them consent to send porn or naked photos to my kids !

How does this work if you buy your spouse/SO a device? Or a parent/grandparent? Even a gift for a friend?

You are making this out to be more complicated than it is. A gift is a gift. A device "assigned" to someone by an administrator (e.g. a work laptop) isn't a gift. The gift of a device with administrative strings attached is just that.

Furthermore, by law the parent still effectively owns anything "given" to a pre-teen child. If the parent wants to take the device away from them and sell it, they're well within their rights to do so.

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