Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#481

Post by larrys » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 6:06 PM UTC

"...do you really think they are so dumb that they don't realize it's not worth the bad PR to save money and effort in this situation?"

I think it's about not positioning themselves as some kind of guarantor of a situation which will open up an entire can of worms going forward with their business model.

They can't say "we vet people" (to the degree necessary) or they open themselves up to lawsuits from people who say "you didn't do your job here".

This happens with hotel, right? Person raped they sue the hotel "you didn't provide security" etc.

As another example, I saw a sign in an office parking lot. It said "security camera not always monitored" or something like that. In this litigious society the mere appearance of a camera gives the obligation to monitor the camera or a level of safety that the office lot is not willing to undertake.

Insurers don't have a model for an airbnb type operation. They will have a hard time wrapping their heads around insuring something that appears to be more of the business model that people would like airbnb to be. Insurers won't insure for reasonable prices what they can't calculate risk on.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#482

Post by amblore » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

What if somebody gets raped?

Seriously. I am not trying to be stupid.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#483

Post by jb_london » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 7:18 PM UTC

It's happened, on couchsurfing rather than airbnb, but it's happened:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1205794/Rape-horror-...

Doesn't seem to have stopped the growth of couchsurfing.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#484

Post by ccrystle » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 7:36 PM UTC

Blame the victim? That's the plan?

The company needs to do this to come out ok:

1) Go overboard helping her reset her life 2) mea culpa: apologize for the handling of it 3) announce steps that will reduce the risk of it happening again 4) stop calling her credibility into account, or blaming Arrington. it's an international story now. 5) Control the message. PG--you shouldn't be posting at all. Your intentions might be good, your points might (or not) be valid, but you're creating more controversy.

The story goes away when 1) people hear a true apology for the handling and 2) EJ has been properly taken care of, regardless of AirBnB's culpability.

“On June 29 I posted my story, and June 30 thus marks the last day I heard from the customer service team regarding my situation. In fact, my appointed ‘liaison’ from Airbnb stopped contacting me altogether just three days after I reported the crime, on June 25, for reasons that are unknown to me. I have heard nothing from her since.”

“And since June 30? On this same day, I received a personal call from one of the co-founders of Airbnb. We had a lengthy conversation, in which he indicated having knowledge of the (previously mentioned) person who had been apprehended by the police, but that he could not discuss the details or these previous cases with me, as the investigation was ongoing. He then addressed his concerns about my blog post, and the potentially negative impact it could have on his company’s growth and current round of funding. During this call and in messages thereafter, he requested that I shut down the blog altogether or limit its access, and a few weeks later, suggested that I update the blog with a ‘twist’ of good news so as to ‘complete[s] the story.’”

“I am not clear here if Chesky is trying to convey the message that Airbnb was involved in securing my safety, but the company was not. My safety was secured by my own efforts.”

“The positive contribution mentioned in this statement might very well refer to the criminal investigation and communication with police; I can’t know for sure. But the staff at Airbnb has not made a positive contribution to me personally or my situation in any way, particularly since June 30.”

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#485

Post by gruseom » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 7:40 PM UTC

It didn't for me either.

All these people self-righteously urging Airbnb to "do the right thing" are naively assuming that there's an obvious right thing and that after a month it hasn't been tried. Oh, and that they know what it is and that the Airbnb founders don't. I doubt all that. For it to be true, the founders would have to lack decency (that's why the sillier comments cry "sociopath!") and be incompetent.

We have little information about what the interactions have been. There are big gaps in both sides' public statements. The only rational response is to withhold judgment. So why have so many HN users rushed to fiery denunciation and smug advice? Because it confirms our self-flattering beliefs: "I'm smarter (than those guys)". "I'm a better person". "I would save the damsel in distress". (If there's a damsel in distress, can a moustache-twirling villain be far behind?)

It seems to me that if one starts from opposite assumptions, namely that I'm probably not that much smarter or better a person, one arrives at different conclusions. First, I don't know. Second, the obvious right things have probably been tried. Third, someone has an interest in prolonging this.

(p.s. Just to stave off obvious misunderstanding: I don't disbelieve what EJ has written about her apartment or how she's feeling.)

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#486

Post by graymagiker » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:05 PM UTC

According to his most recent update http://goo.gl/TBLbf Michael e-mailed the company first, and then called. Further he claims to have read the comment back to Christopher Lukezic before hanging up. This to me seems to be a perfectly reasonable length to go to for information.

Is your contention that this is not what happened? If this is what happened, then I think you owe Michael an apology. He has done an excellent job of updating his article with more information from airbnb's side of things as he got it, and I think that if you misspoke or were misinformed you need to say as much.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#487

Post by tryitnow » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:32 PM UTC

First, let me say I am a huge fan of PG and YC, but...

I have to second (third, fourth, etc) the several opinions already expressed here. This is about the customer's response: http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare...

If she's a liar, let us know. Thanks.

Trying to silence a customer? - this is getting me to doubt how trustworthy HN is - who else is being silenced??? If PG supports guys like the AirBNB execs then what does that say about him?

Again, if the customer is the liar,just please let us know. OK? Thanks.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#488

Post by yaongi » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 2:34 AM UTC

Heheh just read this - it 'turns out'. Love it. See, it turns out use of the phrase is still going strong after all these years.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#489

Post by aivijay » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 3:04 AM UTC

Its completely contradictory what Airbnb says and EJ says. Both being in SF should not be a big deal for Airbnb guys to meet her in person and sort out this thing. Why is this thing being pulled for more than a month? Airbnb should have taken the proper initiatives to deal with this in person than blogging or whatever or even on phone telling EJ to take down her blog etc. Meet in person and sort this out guys than pointing fingers.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#490

Post by lurker14 » Sun, Jul 31, 2011, 4:14 AM UTC

"EJ's Law". Perfect.