Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#451

Post by echelon » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #417

hnlmorg wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see the exact same duopoly as in Apple-Google world. There's Sony and Microsoft(with no independent app stores). Nintendo isn't in the same market as the other two. Nintendo might be a running joke amongst hardcore gamers but ironically they're the most successful console manufacturer out there. The Switch is going from strength to strength and I'd estimate it will outsell the Playstation 4 before Nintendo retire…

You’re missing the point entirely. Microsoft monopolizes all Xbox stores. Sony monopolizes all Playstation stores. Nintendo monopolizes all Switch stores.

But I can buy the same game on all three major consoles. Plus PC. Plus Steam, GOG, Humble, Epic (where I can get it free), or even pirate it with little trouble (if I didn't have qualms with the ethics).

None of these stores do my email, dating, finance, math, fitness, banking, web. They're not fitting the computer role like laptops and smartphones.

Games are toys and have lots of healthy competition. Smartphones are monopolistic dictatorships.

Famgopolies are secretly colluding to take over everything and tax it. To make computing encumbered, unfree, unrepairable, and shackled in surveillance.

Who gives a damn about video game toys when the most important devices in our lives are turning into Big Brother meets Stalin?

90's Bill Gates wishes he was this evil.

Google and Apple need to be split up.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#452

Post by Aerroon » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:56 PM UTC

pyrale wrote: post #434

tsimionescu wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Specifically w.r.t software, I can't for the life of me not figure out why major nation states are not heavily investing in home grown software (easier than home grown hardware), and instead of placing all their eggs into a few megacorps established under foreign laws and subject to control by foreign govts, like Iran's software situation illustrates well. I have also wondered the same, especially seeing not just t…

Every time European countries so much as hint that they may look at US tech corporations the wrong way, the whole US administration threatens a trade war. So yeah, that's the reason.

That alone sounds like a good reason to consider doing it, no?

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#453

Post by oldgradstudent » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #437

oldgradstudent wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enforce the Sherman Antitrust Act. > Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal. > Every person who shall make any contract or engage in any combination or conspiracy hereby declared to be illegal shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be puni…

Has anyone ever actually gone to prison under the Sherman Act?

Rarely.

> Jail sentences have also traditionally been lenient. For example, from 1890 to 1970, only nineteen individuals actually went to jail for pure antitrust violations for a total of 28 months. Thus, during the first 80 years of the Sherman Act, the average jail sentence was approximately 1.5 months.

https://lawecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2020...

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#454

Post by deeter72 » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #374

rewq4321 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence of collusion between Apple and Google coming out of the Epic case is amazing to me. I'd always thought it was a sort of unspoken "game theoretic" type of collusion (which I'm sure it is in part), but it looks like they've had very explicit communication about it: https://mobile.twitter.com/jowens510/status/1428417681351348... > After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showe…

Incredible that they would allow something like that to be recorded in writing! Apparently they are not even afraid of antitrust laws, judging by that.

This reminds a scene from the TV show, the wire when one of the main criminal character hosts a meeting with other gang leaders and a member of his gang is recording minutes, the main character says "Are you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?".

Apparently none of the intelligent executives at Apple/Google figured this out.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#455

Post by zaptheimpaler » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

This kind of collusion is shown to occur regularly in every industry eventually, every single time. History repeats itself over and over again.

Yet tons of people continue to believe in and join the chorus about the wonders of capitalism, the free market and competition whenever any sort of government antitrust intervention or regulations are proposed. Its easy to defend capitalism in black and white terms as opposed to communism/socialism while completely ignoring the vast middle ground between 0 government oversight and total control. I hope these stupid tactics are one day broadly recognized by voters..

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#456

Post by sirjaz » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

Now this maybe why windows phone failed. It was gaining market share in other countries outside the US.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#457

Post by IncRnd » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #432

IncRnd wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raised the bar that is required. It is more appropriate to look whether iPhones are a dominant brand, not whether they are the only brand.

Which they are not.

As it turns out, they are. [1]

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held...

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#458

Post by specialist » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

In broadcasting, the publishers bought off the distributors at the expense of creators, aka payola. Which was eventually prohibited, but continued nonetheless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola

I'm struggling to articulate a payola analog for internet. I'll revisit Stratechery's Aggregation Theory, see how closely it fits. https://stratechery.com/aggregation-theory/

Meanwhile, if the tech titans want to claim the protections for platforms afforded by Section 230, they should probably stop acting like publishers. (aka having your cake and eating it too.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#459

Post by silexia » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

oldgradstudent wrote: post #371

jakecopp wrote: post #9

> After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showed that the execs agreed: "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company." ... > This unredacted graf shows that telcos get up to 25% of Google's app sales to keep them from developing rival app stores on the smartphones they sell and service. Insane reading.

Enforce the Sherman Antitrust Act. > Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal. > Every person who shall make any contract or engage in any combination or conspiracy hereby declared to be illegal shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be puni…

As a CEO, I would love to see the enforcement of these laws. Increasing competition will greatly help our free market. People have lost faith in capitalism because of crony capitalism.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#460

Post by slownews45 » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #277

slownews45 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was public knowledge - they compete in some areas and cooperate in others? For a long time Google was the Apple maps provider (exclusive) on Apple - they had near seamless integration there and in a variety of areas (search etc) - very much acting as one company. They competed in other areas (google photos on iphone has always been very much second class), google music has struggled vs the apple music…

These materials make it sound like they have agreed to split the market such that any competition in areas that are vital to one of the companies involved is deliberately self-limiting. The examples they give is that Apple could potentially compete with Google for search, and that Google could push Android much more aggressively into market segments that Apple currently owns. So as consumers, we're not seeing the fru…

The value is in owning the customer relationship in most cases for the major players.

The capital scale of these solutions has gotten very to extremely high. That reduces incentives to compete in these spaces.

Apple doesn't particularly care to run a search platform because they can extract much of the value of search in allowing others to serve that market (ie, microsoft or google). Ie, these become high profit plays while letting someone else do hard lifting. I'd expect however they would fight like hell if you tried to take away their relationship with their customer.

Even in places they compete - not 100% sure it's worth it. They are fighting it out in maps at huge expense. You need to deliver a global map to your traveling customer base that is amazing (transit, traffic, local POI etc). This is not a small project. Then you have to monetize it. If you told me a smaller handset provider was going to launch a mapping solution - I'd tell you they are crazy!

That drives cooperation especially if a solution is a high capital requirement. Even intel is probably going to cooperate with TSMC (!!!). Some of these capital efforts are kind of insane - 30 billion per year capex type stuff. How many countries have CAPEX expenditures in this scale (ie, not just on operating costs / staff salaries?). These business are larger than countries in some cases.

Android / Samsung absolutely are competing (and copying) Apple in handset space. Ironically they will first denounce apple (not shipping chargers!). That's ALMOST always a guarantee that they will then copy them next cycle :)! I'm not kidding. I'd love to go back and look at everything from an all screen design (bad email machine), to dropping 3.5m jack (which I hated to see happen) to dropping chargers etc.