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George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

nclalegal.org

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Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#71

Post by noptd »

robocat wrote: post #47
Ancapistani wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a citation for this? The last stat I saw was from Israel, and it was that vaccinated people who had never had COVID were ~6-7x more likely to be infected than unvaccinated people who had previously been confirmed to have had it in the past.

Vaccination provides 2x better protection than naturally acquired “immunity” - see good data using search: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=covid+protection+vaccine+v... “In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinat…

> shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus

The parent was comparing against vaccinated individuals who never had COVID which is different than the scenario you linked. I'm as pro-vaccine as they come but claiming that they are spreading "false stats" is a bit uncharitable, no?

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#72

Post by kbenson »

josephcsible wrote: post #50
kbenson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they can require many things of people that are infringements of rights of expression and autonomy, such as dress codes. If en employee there notified them that they had been infected with a highly infectious disease (think smallpox) and still wanted to go to work, would they have a right to deny that person? If so, what specifically constrains them in a situation like this that wouldn't in a situation like t…

Would you deny a person entrance to your building because they had Ebola or rabies? Would you deny a person entrance to your building because they weren't vaccinated against Ebola or rabies? Why the different answers?

Those are exactly the types of things I'm trying to get the GGP comment to elucidate on. Mine was not a comment making a judgement, but seeking clarification on reasoning, by providing a case many could and would agree on to contrast against, in a similar vein to what you attempt to be doing.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#73

Post by loxias »

threatofrain wrote: post #62
ampgt wrote: post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

Hasn't it been this way since forever? Firstly, the US has always granted special exceptions to religion for many public policy requirements. You can complain about how it's unfair, but it's likely that the public needle of opinion won't budge past a threshold within this lifetime. Secondly, there have already been widespread medical requirements for all sorts of aspects of public life, and this hasn't been controver…

> Hasn't it been this way since forever?

At least since Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905).

> granted special exceptions

This podcast: https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027132680/can-the-government... explained the "religious exception" quite well.

My paraphrasing is horrible, but the gist was something like: "religion has a sort of 'most favored' status, so if there's ever a secular exception to a rule, there must also be a religious exception".

Personally, I think that's absurd, but I'm less upset about it after hearing the explanation. I highly recommend listening to the 18 minute episoide.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#74

Post by loxias »

stmfreak wrote: post #11
gizmo686 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC reccomends that adults over 50 who might have had chicken pox get the Shingrix (Shingles) vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/public/shingrix/in...

The CDC has been a fountain of bad science during this past year. Some of us wonder about the veracity of all their prior recommendations now.

What bad science? I think they get a "A" for science and a "D-" for communication and social "science".

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#75

Post by wtallis »

xondono wrote: post #52
andi999 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even non sterilizing could be argued, it effects other people if you cannot find an ICU after your car accident because they are full with unvaccinated (and some vaccinated) covid patients.

The problem with this argument is that you can use it to also ban tobacco, and alcohol, and sugar, and red meat, and then you can move to things like sports, and start banning bungee jumping and rock climbing,… There’s no obvious way to draw a line, but you definitely need one.

> There’s no obvious way to draw a line, but you definitely need one.

That's why you look at the magnitude of the effect, not just the direction of the effect. Not all slopes are slippery. Our legal system does not collapse as soon as it is tasked with determining which harm is more important to prevent.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#76

Post by [deleted] »

ampgt wrote: post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

[deleted]

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#77

Post by avastmick »

framecowbird wrote: post #37
ampgt wrote: post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding vaccination. However, there is a long history of the state telling people what they should do with their body. The two most obvious examples are drug usage and abortion. Why do we accept that but are suddenly outraged by vaccination? Vaccination mandates aren't new either: many countries will not even let you enter unless you are vaccinated against yellow fever. I think there ar…

> Why do we accept [the state telling people what to do with their bodies in some cases] but are suddenly outraged by vaccination?

We're certainly not "suddenly outraged by vaccination". In fact, vaccines and anti-vaccine sentiment have historically gone hand in hand[1]. The historical reaction to vaccines _is_ worsened when mandated. The Anti-Compulsory Vaccination League was formed in 1866 in reaction to the British compulsory vaccination order for smallpox.[2] Would smalpox have been eliminated if people could have chosen for themselves?

[1] https://www.historyofvaccines.org/index.php/content/articles... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anti-Vaccination_Leag...

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#78

Post by robocat »

noptd wrote: post #71
robocat wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination provides 2x better protection than naturally acquired “immunity” - see good data using search: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=covid+protection+vaccine+v... “In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinat…

> shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus The parent was comparing against vaccinated individuals who never had COVID which is different than the scenario you linked. I'm as pro-vaccine as they come but claiming that they are spreading "false stats" is a bit uncharitable, no?

My apologies, you are entirely correct: I am not comparing same with same.

I have spent some time looking for relevant data, and it is difficult to find, so the parent comment’s number could easily be correct. The parents response is still (Roger) irrelevant to the grand-parent valid point that “They’re putting themself and all peoples that interact with them at serious risk” - the most forgiving reason would be if the GP edited their comment to remove a fact?

Reinfection remains rare: “We know that reinfection is not a common occurrence, at least in the short term with the original variant of the virus as well as some of the other [variants]” - https://www.healthline.com/health-news/can-you-get-delta-var...

Even with the vaccine, you have a high risk of catching the Delta variant because the vaccines are only 40% effective against Delta… However you are far far less likely to get seriously ill, and apparently 2x less likely to spread it on to your family, if you are fully vaccinated and then catch Delta. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-v...

I also found “The relative risk for PCR positivity was 0.22 (95% CI, 0.17-0.28) for vaccinated individuals and 0.26 (95% CI, 0.21-0.34) for individuals with prior infection compared with no record of vaccination or prior infection” from https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2781112 but that doesn’t really help o_O

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#79

Post by sunkenvicar »

norvvryo wrote: post #64
fatbird wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is to say that the more immediate concern is that it has never been tested or approved for human consumption and there are no guidelines around dosage or expected efficacy and if you're taking it because you heard about it as you seem to have, you're wildly guessing about a treatment in preference to availing yourself of a proven treatment that's been administered almost a billion times in the last 18 months un…

Ivermectin has been tested and approved for use in humans. It is used to treat parasites and rosacea. https://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Stromectol-ivermectin-391.1... https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Ivermectin#section...

Indeed, ivermectin is orders of magnitude safer than many OTC drugs. Nearly 4 billion doses administered worldwide and about 13 deaths in half a century.

Arguments against ivermectin are becoming quite tiresome because it causes virtually zero harm. In fact, Pfizer is impressed with its anti-viral properties and release of a similar (read:patentable) drug is imminent. Merck is another (early) source of ivermectin misinformation.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#80

Post by sunkenvicar »

aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA wrote: post #63
gizmo686 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC reccomends that adults over 50 who might have had chicken pox get the Shingrix (Shingles) vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/public/shingrix/in...

Shingles sucks. Get the vaccine if you can.

Allow me to clarify. I said chickenpox vaccine. As in the childhood vaccine.

Why give a child a vaccine after they contracted the disease and developed natural immunity? Unnecessary medical procedures carry risks without benefit and veer too close to the field of human experimentation for many people.

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