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The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

economist.com

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Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#31

Post by partsKnown »

tomp wrote: post #25
dkdk8283 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the more reason to piss them off and ween off our addiction to disposable junk and sweatshop priced labor. Given the impact to the world we all should be asking difficult questions.

This is a reasonable argument and will be exactly as effective as presenting a reasonable argument to an addict is.

In this case it really is not effective though. There is no drop in replacement for China.

A slow transition would be impossible so it's really all or nothing in the short term.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#32

Post by redis_mlc »

White_Wolf wrote: post #15
daavidhauser wrote: post #4

why does the world need a proper investigation into that? Sometimes it seems to me that it’s just because we want someone to blame. Not because it would actually help anyone.

Because a specific category of people want to blame either China or Russia for anything without any proof. In this particular case there were reports that the virus was present in Spain and Italy before China. They seem to ignore that and keep screeching that CHina is to blame. Edit: added source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-...

> Because a specific category of people want to blame either China or Russia for anything without any proof.

That's not what's happening. There is no direct proof available outside China, but there's at least 20 items of indirect proof that COVID-19 came from one of the WIV lab locations (there's 2 locations.)

I followed the euro sewage findings at the time.

Two possible explanations are:

1) lab error

2) participants went to the Military Games in Wuhan in Oct, 2019 and got sick. They probably brought it back to their home countries. The participants said, "Wuhan looked like a ghost town." so Wuhan was already in some kind of lockdown.

For those who want to research this further:

- find out the dates of the "hospitals are full" satellite photos (around Sept, 2019)

- find out the dates of the Military Games (around Oct, 2019)

- the first reported fatality was Dec. 1, 2019.

AMA.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#33

Post by padiyar83 »

underwater wrote: post #30

If you want to chase a conspiracy that actually matters, go find out who is pushing the narrative that COVID is fake and vaccines are dangerous. That conspiracy is literally killing thousands of people.

I don't think that's a conspiracy. Motivations there, however misplaced they may be, are quite clear.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#34

Post by blitzar »

syshum wrote: post #23
White_Wolf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the earliest sample found of C19 was in Barcelona in march 2019(If I remember this well). 1+1=? I would say that you either want to blame someone in particular or Spain is a genocidal communist dictatorship.

Of course you you have a source for that right. All official sources I can find say the virus is traced to October or November 2019 origination on china with first cases in Spain from January 2020

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-...

Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#35

Post by partsKnown »

syshum wrote: post #28
zpeti wrote: post #2

Things like this usually come down to incentives. And right now I don’t see how almost any major power’s leaders have any incentive to push an investigation forwards. We are too dependent on China to piss them off, and so far experience shows we are much more likely to follow their demands than follow our own (Hollywood, NBA, Hong Kong, blizzard, albeit only one of those is geopolitical).

>>We are too dependent on China to piss them off, That seems to be a problem... No? Maybe we should be pushing our political and business leaders to fix that. If a nation.. openly hostile to our interests is able to cause a worldwide pandemic that no one can investigate because it might upset that nations feefee's. That imo is much bigger problem than the pandemic itself

Cheap goods for everyone in the world at the expense of Chinese slave labor, sounds like a deal too good to pass up.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#36

Post by epicureanideal »

copperx wrote: post #14
zpeti wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there aren’t ever any consequences to making huge mistakes that kill millions of people, what are the incentives in the future to not do it again? The CCP knowingly hid information about infections. This whole thing could have been contained in China with the right information at the right time. If it was a lab accident that could be avoided in the future too with better protocols. I’m baffled that after millions…

Let go of what? It's pretty much impossible to prove COVID was an accidental lab leak, unless there's a huge smoking gun. Even if there was a proof, what would be the point of revenge? Did any country take revenge for Chernobyl?

It seems like COVID has caused much more global damage than Chernobyl. The USSR also suffered a high percentage of the total damage, whereas China has suffered somewhat proportionally but not say 80-90% of the total damage.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#37

Post by switch007 »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #3
zpeti wrote: post #2

Things like this usually come down to incentives. And right now I don’t see how almost any major power’s leaders have any incentive to push an investigation forwards. We are too dependent on China to piss them off, and so far experience shows we are much more likely to follow their demands than follow our own (Hollywood, NBA, Hong Kong, blizzard, albeit only one of those is geopolitical).

All the more reason to piss them off and ween off our addiction to disposable junk and sweatshop priced labor. Given the impact to the world we all should be asking difficult questions.

You mean capitalists’ addiction to profit. Double my wage, I’ll buy made in the UK/EU much more often.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#38

Post by eurasiantiger »

copperx wrote: post #14
zpeti wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there aren’t ever any consequences to making huge mistakes that kill millions of people, what are the incentives in the future to not do it again? The CCP knowingly hid information about infections. This whole thing could have been contained in China with the right information at the right time. If it was a lab accident that could be avoided in the future too with better protocols. I’m baffled that after millions…

Let go of what? It's pretty much impossible to prove COVID was an accidental lab leak, unless there's a huge smoking gun. Even if there was a proof, what would be the point of revenge? Did any country take revenge for Chernobyl?

You are right; in light of available circumstantial evidence such as the instatement of an army bioweapons commander in WIV and the deletion of their sample database, it would seem much more likely that it was an intentional lab leak.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#39

Post by syshum »

radu_floricica wrote: post #21
cblconfederate wrote: post #13

Why? What would that change, apart from distracting everyone into another giant anti-china campaign? Would we solve covid if we knew how it came to be synthesized?

I would actually like to know exactly why I had to stay locked in my house for a couple of months while nice military men were out on the streets with big guns. You might make a case that it would actually help, or not. I don't know. I don't particularly care, not next to the huge magnitude of wanting the tiniest bit of truth and justice.

>>would actually like to know exactly why I had to stay locked in my house for a couple of months while nice military men were out on the streets with big guns.

Well even if it was a lab leak. A response to a pandemic with totalitarian lock down using the military is something you need to address with your government

That is NOT a proper response to a illness for any nation claiming to value individual rights and individual liberty

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#40

Post by eurasiantiger »

blitzar wrote: post #34
syshum wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you you have a source for that right. All official sources I can find say the virus is traced to October or November 2019 origination on china with first cases in Spain from January 2020

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-... Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows

Funny they only find it now and not earlier. Do the researchers or the university happen to have a significant connection to China?
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