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George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

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31–40 of 146 posts

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#31
post #23
post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

It's funny you say this, because I think everyone would actually agree that I have a strong First Amendment free speech right to tell you what to do with your body. Similarly, businesses and institutions have a First Amendment right (the right of association) to choose who they do business with.

> Similarly, businesses and institutions have a First Amendment right (the right of association) to choose who they do business with.

Private institutions. George Mason University is a public school and the situation for this professor is actually the exact opposite of what you seem to be claiming here.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#32
post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

How did we get to the point where so many people would rather risk death and the death of many others than receive a free vaccine? They’re putting themself and all peoples that interact with them at serious risk.

Imo it's okay because there is no expectation of people doing everything they can for other people. You could argue that people that don't go to medical school risk lives of the others.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't out warring on "no shirts, no shoes, no service" mandates in private businesses, but somehow mandating a vaccine for a pandemic disease that kills is a gross infringement on our bodily autonomy? Religious exemptions for vaccinations shouldn't be allowed either.

You can take your shirt and shoes back off once you leave a business. A better comparison would be businesses that banned certain hairstyles or tattoos.

In fact, you are, in the US, allowed to refuse service to someone based on their tattoos or hairstyle [0]. The only prohibition in general on refusing service is to protected classes such as race or sex.

So now we can refuse service to someone with a tattoo we dislike, but not because they're unvaccinated? We don't deserve to survive as a species if we're that fucking dumb.

[0] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AHnJsx...

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#34
post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

How did we get to the point where so many people would rather risk death and the death of many others than receive a free vaccine? They’re putting themself and all peoples that interact with them at serious risk.

But vaccinated people face almost no risk from covid, so it doesn't affect them if people choose to not get vaccinated.

Moreover, the covid vaccines will not eliminate covid from the population, as the data from Iceland clearly shows:

https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/14240115421950238...

The virus will continue to circulate and impact every one regardless of what percentage of the population gets vaccinated.

tl;dr people who don't get vaccinated are only harming themselves.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#35
The article does not explicitly note that GMU is a public university, an important detail. If it were private, such a determination would be unfounded on the principal that two entities have the right to enter into a transaction strictly upon mutually and exclusively amenable terms.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#36
post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

When your not doing something with your body results in the harm of death of people other than yourself? The right to swing your fist has always ended at others nose. What we are litigating is not that concept well established but a still somewhat fluid understanding of the situation as it stands and how to apply our understanding of fact and law to the necessary choice between your autonomy and others safety.

Vaccinating someone who has already had covid is thornier and less clear. Medically it is certainly advisable a rerun isn't always mild and studies have shown individuals who are previously infected have twice the chance of reinfection compared to those who are also vaccinated.

The chance of misadventure from being vaccinated is fantastically low and the risk of reinfection while a lot smaller than in a naive individual is a long way from zero. I have substantial doubts regarding any immunologist would say

>and that it violates medical ethics to order unnecessary procedures.

Unless he had been in a coma and had just woken up yesterday.

What he is fighting for then is the right to undertake a course of action that is both meritless and brainless but I don't think we have a right to protect him from himself so the problem becomes is he risking others to an unacceptable degree. I'd say no. If he becomes infected he could infect others including the ample unvaccinated so he IS risking others by his actions but the risk is probably at this juncture small although this could change and he would be stupid to delay.

Importantly the test needs to be one with an acceptably low false positive rate performed by a legitimate lab. Not a self test for practical purposes lest people find a way to foul the test (see the soda issue where kids found out that an acidic liquid led to a positive test) or sell each other spit over the internet or something equally stupid.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#37
post #12

How did we get to a point where we think it’s OK to tell someone what they should do with their body? For the record: I am vaccinated and I always encourage others to do so. But what is the difference between someone choosing to not vaccinate “because of their religion” and just choosing not to vaccinate? Why is one of those OK and the other isn’t?

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding vaccination. However, there is a long history of the state telling people what they should do with their body.

The two most obvious examples are drug usage and abortion.

Why do we accept that but are suddenly outraged by vaccination? Vaccination mandates aren't new either: many countries will not even let you enter unless you are vaccinated against yellow fever.

I think there are valid arguments opposing vaccine mandates but the "this is an unprecedented infringement on freedom" isn't one of them.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did we get to the point where so many people would rather risk death and the death of many others than receive a free vaccine? They’re putting themself and all peoples that interact with them at serious risk.

Can you provide a citation for this? The last stat I saw was from Israel, and it was that vaccinated people who had never had COVID were ~6-7x more likely to be infected than unvaccinated people who had previously been confirmed to have had it in the past.

Can you please link the study? Thanks.

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#39
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny you say this, because I think everyone would actually agree that I have a strong First Amendment free speech right to tell you what to do with your body. Similarly, businesses and institutions have a First Amendment right (the right of association) to choose who they do business with.

> Similarly, businesses and institutions have a First Amendment right (the right of association) to choose who they do business with. Private institutions. George Mason University is a public school and the situation for this professor is actually the exact opposite of what you seem to be claiming here.

And yet they can require many things of people that are infringements of rights of expression and autonomy, such as dress codes.

If en employee there notified them that they had been infected with a highly infectious disease (think smallpox) and still wanted to go to work, would they have a right to deny that person? If so, what specifically constrains them in a situation like this that wouldn't in a situation like that?

Re: George Mason professor wins Covid antibody lawsuit as vaccine exemption

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did we get to the point where so many people would rather risk death and the death of many others than receive a free vaccine? They’re putting themself and all peoples that interact with them at serious risk.

Imo it's okay because there is no expectation of people doing everything they can for other people. You could argue that people that don't go to medical school risk lives of the others.

No one will force you to vaccinate if you move do mountains and live in isolation there. But if you want to live among others - you either - follow the rules of majority willingly - will be forced to follow them - move away and leave alone

But if you want to live with others and do whatever you want and endanger them - no one will tolerate this and then will be right to.

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