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Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

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Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#261

Post by catmanjan »

makeitdouble wrote: post #194
noptd wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This isn't an "infraction" you can police with a fine, jail, etc. I disagree - governments legislate their markets so it is absolutely punishable if defined as such.

I think parent’s point is that a one time slap (as big as it might be) as we do with other crimes wouldn’t solve the issue. The punishment has to be more structural, legislating for instance as you suggest, or dramatically changing the entity’s structure as we did with past monopolies.

Depends on what you think the goal of the free market/society is, e.g. is this even in our interest to solve - better to redistribute these ill gotten gains to the benefit of society and let the free market solve its own problem - if they do it again, another fine.

just like parking /speeding tickets arent considered structural problems

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#262

Post by adam_arthur »

dalbasal wrote: post #83
mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

>>I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint. Let's make a point of starting here. There's room for the legalistic standpoint, especially if we're trying to understand legal processes... but this isn't a law forum. It's near impossible to discuss antitrust usefully from a mostly-legalistic perspective. The laws, precedents, legal doctrines and economic doctrines they…

Yes, exactly. The law needs to be updated to account for this new world of "platforms".

By platform, I mean an ecosystem a private entity creates which they monetize through content created/uploaded/deployed by external parties.

AWS and others fall under this definition too. The truth is, cloud computing should be a low margin industry in the long run. Yes, software has close to 0 marginal cost of production, but the same is true of your competitors. Basic economic principle implies that in a competitive market, the price to customers should be close to the cost of production.

In the old days, the economy was largely physical goods based, so it was very easy to simply buy a competing product if you don't like the one you have now. That by and large didn't entail becoming entrenched in a whole ecosystem.

Laws need to be updated to tackle the inherent monopolistic elements of platforms, social and so on. China is taking this path, so it will be interesting to see how that develops.

It's important to recognize too, that leveraging a monopolistic position to produce excess profit is effectively a direct transfer of wealth from the littler guys to the bigger guys.

e.g. Apple taking a 30% cut on the app store directly takes from app creators, who may raise prices 30%, which ultimately hits customers.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#263

Post by anaganisk »

tssva wrote: post #260
anaganisk wrote: post #256

The silence of googlers when articles like this come up is funny. They jump in like a rabbit, about every google post. Showing off all their google stuff. When things like this come up they pretend they’re busy coding (something something api to help their ad company). We as devs made them mega corps, seriously. Even the worst privacy nightmare inducing API, was coded by someone. Money sure drives everything, people…

I'm not a Googler and I fail to see the issue here. I personally find no issue with this.

When you look it narrow, you will mot see it. But as you start to see the big picture, you start to see the similarities with our past mistakes. Companies that are so afraid of loosing their power over their consumers, will do anything and everything to keep it. If android and apple had an Open Store API, and their respective stores had the power, no problem. But closing their store apis for themself, payments to themself is bad. Do you think we would’ve had chrome and firefox, if IE used obscure APIs? Imagine Internet standards as controlled by Microsoft. They reject legit apps on daily basis without recourse.

To keep it more simple, think of how US let its telecom companies have so much power over its communication needs. How it’s affecting people.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#264

Post by Phrodo_00 »

anaganisk wrote: post #263
tssva wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a Googler and I fail to see the issue here. I personally find no issue with this.

When you look it narrow, you will mot see it. But as you start to see the big picture, you start to see the similarities with our past mistakes. Companies that are so afraid of loosing their power over their consumers, will do anything and everything to keep it. If android and apple had an Open Store API, and their respective stores had the power, no problem. But closing their store apis for themself, payments to the…

I generally agree, but this is a very weird phrase considering history:

> Do you think we would’ve had chrome and firefox, if IE used obscure APIs

IE did use obscure, non standard APIs. It took web developers to get tired of MS' shit and starting to code to the standards to dethrone IE from its monopoly. This also kind of implies that IE was there before Netscape which is not true.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#265

Post by Shubham28 »

anaganisk wrote: post #256

The silence of googlers when articles like this come up is funny. They jump in like a rabbit, about every google post. Showing off all their google stuff. When things like this come up they pretend they’re busy coding (something something api to help their ad company). We as devs made them mega corps, seriously. Even the worst privacy nightmare inducing API, was coded by someone. Money sure drives everything, people…

Googlers can't reply to posts like this, irrespective of where they stand on the issue, because this is an ongoing legal matter.

Disclaimer - I am a Googler.

P.S. Rather than passing snark comments about what others do, maybe try talking to any of them. Any employee of a significantly sized company could have guessed that.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#266

Post by sam1r »

ctvo wrote: post #38
jakecopp wrote: post #9

> After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showed that the execs agreed: "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company." ... > This unredacted graf shows that telcos get up to 25% of Google's app sales to keep them from developing rival app stores on the smartphones they sell and service. Insane reading.

The new FTC chair, Lina Khan, read this like Birdman, rubbing her hands.

Shout to bird man!

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#267

Post by TheRealNGenius »

echelon wrote: post #257
heavyset_go wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showed that the execs agreed: "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company." They're literally a cartel.

It's time to split the Famgopolies. Apple and Google shouldn't be in so many different businesses, killing everything in their wake. Why the hell does Apple have a film studio? Why does Google have a game studio and cloud? If they keep going, they'll be the MGM and Whole Foods too. (Oh, wait!) Famgopolies also shouldn't be allowed to dictate their payments stacks, software distribution systems, app approval processes…

You don't get it, what you describe is not necessarily a monopoly.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#268

Post by tssva »

anaganisk wrote: post #263
tssva wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a Googler and I fail to see the issue here. I personally find no issue with this.

When you look it narrow, you will mot see it. But as you start to see the big picture, you start to see the similarities with our past mistakes. Companies that are so afraid of loosing their power over their consumers, will do anything and everything to keep it. If android and apple had an Open Store API, and their respective stores had the power, no problem. But closing their store apis for themself, payments to the…

I dispute your claim that I don't see the big picture and even if I accepted it you have provided absolutely no justification why the specific action is an issue in the big picture, It is just a bunch of non-specific anti-Google rambling. I give it as much credit as I do anti-vax and anti-mask ranting I see here.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#269

Post by anaganisk »

Shubham28 wrote: post #265
anaganisk wrote: post #256

The silence of googlers when articles like this come up is funny. They jump in like a rabbit, about every google post. Showing off all their google stuff. When things like this come up they pretend they’re busy coding (something something api to help their ad company). We as devs made them mega corps, seriously. Even the worst privacy nightmare inducing API, was coded by someone. Money sure drives everything, people…

Googlers can't reply to posts like this, irrespective of where they stand on the issue, because this is an ongoing legal matter. Disclaimer - I am a Googler. P.S. Rather than passing snark comments about what others do, maybe try talking to any of them. Any employee of a significantly sized company could have guessed that.

so you as humans are controlled from voicing your opinion by your corporate? So your moral compass depends on your employer?

Edit: I did not mean to dictate what anyone must do, but as a person you are entitled to have an opinion, to stand up. If you are going to base your moral compass based on what others decide. May be one day, you wont even bother having it. Im not hatching a big conspiracy here, but we must always keep some actions in mind irrespective of what courts decide. Courts are run by humans too, and humans make mistakes.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#270

Post by adam_arthur »

Though it's been much lambasted by investors, I think it's inevitable that the US will begin down the same path China has recently with their tech companies.

It's pretty easy to see that FAANG-esque companies are totally dominant at this point, and have many pseudo-monopolistic elements about them.

Beyond specific names, there is a vast difference in both the scale, and the "ecosystem" or "platform" nature in modern software that effectively invalidates the applicability of anti-trust law as it is written.

Going even further, many laws protecting private companies likely will change in the coming years to account for different paradigm that software brings. Sometimes difference in scale is also difference in nature.

If you look into the aims of a lot of China's recent regulations, they are actually setup to create a competitive market, rather than have a few tech companies become dominant. Competition is ultimately good for the public, as it leads to lower costs to the consumer, and more incentive to innovate (once entrenched).

I don't suggest we go to the same extremes, but it's inevitable we'll start heading down that path, whether it be the next few years, or decades.

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