21–30 of 138 posts
Is it possible The vaccine has the opposite effect on some people, rather than helping them to defend, it makes it easier for them to become infected?
From a purely scientific point a view, there is no reason for the post above (from ajay-b) to be downvoted.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What mechanism are you suggesting would be at fault for such an outcome?
A possible mechanism I have seen mentioned is Antibody Dependent Enhancement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement I am not a biologist and have no opinion on the matter, I have just seen it mentioned online.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What mechanism are you suggesting would be at fault for such an outcome?
From my own experience, I see that vaccinated people are less fearful of mixing with large groups of people. That's one way the vaccinated can be more easily infected. It's not a physiological effect but I think it's probably the crux of the whole issue here.
Saying that, if seriousness of disease is related to initial exposure amount, perhaps being vaxxed and overly brave could mean you get a higher initial dose?
i'm amazed at the number of people still believing high vaccination rates will get us rid of the covid, despite all the evidences of the previous year pointing in the opposite directions (people getting infected multiple times in a short period, variants mutating the spike protein a lot, and more recently vaccinated people still proven to be both carrier and transmitter of the virus). The final nail in the coffin bei…
1. 21.2% of the population (unvaccinated people older than 12) make up 40% of the hospitalizations. It's even more stark when you remove the immune compromised from the statistic.
2. For the delta-variant we need a higher vaccination rate to reach herd immunity. Estimates vary, but most put this around 85%.
3. While vaccinated people still can get sick (and why won't they, the immune system can only start to act after encountering the pathogen), but... the time of being infectious is lower and (see above) hospitalization and death rates are much lower.
Upon (very basic) scrutiny the numbers from Israel point to the high efficiency of the vaccines not the opposite.
And last, what would have us do instead?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because this hypothesis has already been shown to be false numerous times.
And the GP was asking a question, not stating it as a fact.
>As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-...
and
>comorbidities were more frequent in patients with vaccine breakthrough infections in comparison to a large case series on unvaccinated hospitalized patients - including hypertension, diabetes, heart failure, chronic kidney diseases, chronic lung diseases, dementia and cancer. Moreover, 40% of the patients were immunocompromised.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210713/Israeli-study-of-...
So the serious infections are concentrated in those who are older, immunocompromised, or those who have other conditions already known to be linked to having a more serious case.
Before anyone draws the wrong conclusions... 78.8% of the population above 12 are vaccinated. The remaining 21.2% make up about 40% of all hospitalizations. The vaccines are incredibly effective and the situation in Israel does by no means indicate that they are not. Edit: Fixed 11.2% to 21.2%.