Direct YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohHdZXnsNi8
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Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
21–30 of 95 posts
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
JRuby is fast for a Ruby implementation, but it's still far, far slower than Scala or Java itself. http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all...
I do get that a dynamic language like Ruby will always be slower than a language like Java, which has primitives and where many things, including static method calls, are solved at compile time. But citing the Alioth.Debian benchmarks? Really? Dude, take a look at the source-code of those benchmarks sometimes -- they are completely useless ;)
it's still slower than ruby 1.9 is it not? I was under the impression the current perf hierarchy was 1.9.2p290 w / gc cleanup patch (ree inspired) > jruby > 1.8.7 (ree) > all the other rubies?
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
People are going to defend their language of choice, but I have to look up to see what the big dogs are doing, try and understand why they're doing it and what type of influences they're under when it comes time to choose a technology stack to address and solve a problem. Ruby, and Python to certain extent with Django, suffers from the Rails attitude of opinionated development where either it's all Rails or nothing,…
Coming from a Java workshop, I have noticed the exact opposite - the majority of Java developers I have worked with are unwilling to touch or experiment with anything other than Java, even languages on the JVM like Scala; alternatively, I have noticed python developers are much more open and agile when it comes to moving in and out of other languages.
In retrospect, I should've said depending on the environment and the willingness of the devs involved, but yeah, they always find a way back to Java.
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#24One thing that wasn't touched was JRuby[1], on their site they state high performance and real threading as advantages. If twitter has (some of) the best ruby developer (mentioned somewhere at the end of the video), why have they neglected JRuby? Why is it no option? For legacy code with native extensions this makes sense. But is jruby slower, more memory hungry on the JVM then scala or clojure? I always though that…
I recall reading an interview with Evan Weaver that the problem with moving to JRuby was in client libraries they were using, not JRuby itself.
That is indeed the issue if you want to convert an existing rails app to JRuby. But if you're just starting out, it's a different story: you'll end up much more JVM-focused since the best option is generally to use the java equivalent instead of a ruby gem, but there are options.
I've been using rails for almost 7 years now (holy crap) and run a medium-sized site on it. It works just fine, but if I were starting from scratch today, I would still use Rails, but I'd run it on JRuby.
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#25I was recently in a quandary over the choice of technology. I started RoR and I really like it. However I was concerned about long term implications of that choice. The thing that I am taking from this talk is that I shouldn't worry about that, right now. If and when I need to scale, I will have enough resources to make a better choice. Resources that I don't have right now.
Shopify is still 100% ROR and we serve hundreds of millions of requests. You will be fine :-) It's a competitive advantage for us, we move faster then the rest of the market.
I'm actually really glad to hear it. Though, I wonder about the "rails doesn't scale" mantra, is that really more for active record? In your experience is active record the biggest out of the box bottleneck?
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#26I was recently in a quandary over the choice of technology. I started RoR and I really like it. However I was concerned about long term implications of that choice. The thing that I am taking from this talk is that I shouldn't worry about that, right now. If and when I need to scale, I will have enough resources to make a better choice. Resources that I don't have right now.
When that day arrived, the next question will be whether you have the guts to do it. How many companies dare to rewrite (even with the assumption you can do it peacemeal style)?
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#27With the release of Java 7 (invokedynamic) the performance of these dynamic languages (like ruby and python) may become much less of a factor (JRuby and Jython). At least that's what the JRuby folks imply: http://www.engineyard.com/blog/2011/jruby-1-6-released-now-w...
Punch Line from Link:
"There’s a very real chance that invokedynamic could improve JRuby performance many times, putting us on par with our statically-typed brothers like Java and Scala. And that means you can write Ruby code without fear. Awesome."
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shopify is still 100% ROR and we serve hundreds of millions of requests. You will be fine :-) It's a competitive advantage for us, we move faster then the rest of the market.
I'm actually really glad to hear it. Though, I wonder about the "rails doesn't scale" mantra, is that really more for active record? In your experience is active record the biggest out of the box bottleneck?
From what I read, "rails doesn't scale" is really a misnomer, because there are number of things that can be done to scale rails. I think Haiping Zhao of Facebook made it clear, that it's really just an efficiency problem. Bottom line, rails requires more computing power than jvm for sites like twitter. Which are only a handle of sites.
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, you're very unlikely to ever have to solve the kinds of scaling problems Twitter has had to solve. You'll get your app off the ground faster with Python or Ruby.
You will get your app of the ground faster, but you're selling yourself short if you're a technology-based company thinking that you'll never have scaling problems. Competing against Twitter or any other social-based app you'll probably never encounter that level of scale, but any financial application will need to be both fast and handle the complexities that only the JVM can address. Like he states at the end of th…
I'm pretty sure he said "4x" rather than "Forex".
Re: Twitter: From Ruby on Rails to the JVM [video]
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
People are going to defend their language of choice, but I have to look up to see what the big dogs are doing, try and understand why they're doing it and what type of influences they're under when it comes time to choose a technology stack to address and solve a problem. Ruby, and Python to certain extent with Django, suffers from the Rails attitude of opinionated development where either it's all Rails or nothing,…
Coming from a Java workshop, I have noticed the exact opposite - the majority of Java developers I have worked with are unwilling to touch or experiment with anything other than Java, even languages on the JVM like Scala; alternatively, I have noticed python developers are much more open and agile when it comes to moving in and out of other languages.
Could that be because the experimental ones have already moved into Ruby/Python years ago? The Rails world certainly has a lot of ex-java programmers.