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Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#131

Post by rvp-x »

peteradio wrote: post #126
rvp-x wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have mountains of data about the current vaccine. This amount of disease-tracking is unheard of. Almost any institution in the world has regular discussions about this singular disease. Governments spend huge resources to pinpoint the exact minimum measures that can control the spread enough. My country attempted a 3rd dose, and within 2 weeks they were already reporting data on reduced risk of catching the virus…

Links to studies?

Here's a study with a sample comparing 596,618 vaccinated matched with the same number of unvaccinated people by my own healthcare provider:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2101765

This healthcare provider is able to follow up on people with detail for a really long time - they are notified of any vaccination, PCR test result, hospitalization and death within the country. They've likely made it possible to calculate the same data for the current day within a moment's notice, and use this information for quick decision-making.

I would expect other healthcare providers in other countries to have pooled this information if they are able to do so (and possibly publish it too).

Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#132

Post by boboche »

andrew_ wrote: post #38
mrgordon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point. The virus is usually much worse without the vaccine.

Please provide data for that claim.

Look at the death rates now compared to last year’s wave in countries that have a higher vaccination rate. Not saying its a miracle or perfect, but the numbers are speaking. I’m not for booster shots or being vaccinated x times, heck, I had a problem with requiring 2 shots for something that is not 95%+ effective. But after doing the maths of probability of infection, probability of sick or long term covid vs vaccination issues… I didn’t like the conclusion but I’m not in denial and trying to find information to confirm my initial bias, I took the second shot. All this said, I won’t accept anything else before a full year or higher % now.

Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#133

Post by peteradio »

rvp-x wrote: post #131
peteradio wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Links to studies?

Here's a study with a sample comparing 596,618 vaccinated matched with the same number of unvaccinated people by my own healthcare provider: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2101765 This healthcare provider is able to follow up on people with detail for a really long time - they are notified of any vaccination, PCR test result, hospitalization and death within the country. They've likely made it possible t…

Its unfortunate that they exclude prior infection from study. Why not study them as a separate cohort? 36% of Americans have been infected. What percent of the unvaccinated public have a prior infection? It seems like a 100% prior infected control group would be appropriate. Where is that data?

Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#134

Post by edanm »

_y5hn wrote: post #119
OrderlyTiamat wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont understand, why would that be "statiatically insignificant"? for what analysis?

I replied to the last paragraph of parent poster. If you study the few people getting dose 3 two weeks after, you're not going to learn anything about effectiveness of dose 3.

If I understand what you're saying, that's not what was done, at least here in Israel.

After the 3rd vaccine, afaik, they compared the rates of hospitalizations of people do did vs. didn't yet get the 3rd vaccine, as compared to what happened the week before. They saw a drop in 3rd-vaccinated, and only in 3rd-vaccinated, implying that it did have an effect. And this wasn't a small population (I don't know exact numbers but I assume several 10s/100s of thousands).

Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#135

Post by _i8xb »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #41
meheleventyone wrote: post #11

Tangentially related but I’m on day 9 of COVID infection which is easily the longest I’ve been sick in years. I got two shots of Pfizer last one on the 13th of July. If the vaccine has kept this relatively mild then I’m very glad. It sucks. My main symptoms are a stuffed up face, cough, sore throat, aching body and an extremely fuzzy head that seems to come and go. I had a slightly raised temp at the start but otherw…

I am so sorry for your terrible sickness! It's probably impossible to say whether "the vaccine has kept this relatively mild", especially since you got it despite being vaccinated twice. At least earlier strains showed no or very mild symptoms in 80% of the infected, and yours doesn't sound very mild. Maybe you'd be dead if not for the vaccine? or perhaps the vaccine allowed your body to contain it to just your nose,…

He didn't get vaccinated twice. He received the Pfizer vaccine. This vaccine, like Moderna, requires 2 doses spaced out in time.

Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#136

Post by phonypc »

daenz wrote: post #120
maxerickson wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have an outbreak in a highly vaccinated population, guess what is true of the people that get sick? Consider the limit case, a 100% vaccinated population. If you have an outbreak, everyone that gets sick will have been vaccinated.

This is using a clever (and true) thought experiment to warp actual reality. We are nowhere close to being 100% vaccinated, and so 3/4 is a horrible ratio for the vaccine. Put another way, if 3/4 of the population was vaccinated, vaccinated people representing 3/4 of the cases would mean that the vaccine has no impact on the cases.

The link in GP refers to an outbreak (Provincetown, MA. in July) that is not representative of pretty much any situation but itself. It is not by any means evidence for vaccine ineffectiveness. For context:

https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1421313594063458304

https://twitter.com/peterstaley/status/1421215604481142785

Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#138

Post by cactus2093 »

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #46
cactus2093 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reported your comment for misinformation, this is untrue.

No. You are wrong. I have reported your comment for misinformation. [1] Study: Fully vaccinated people with "breakthrough" COVID Delta infections carry as much virus as the unvaccinated [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-vaccine-delta-variant...

That is not remotely related to what you claimed, genius. Try again

Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#139

Post by cactus2093 »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #104
cactus2093 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reported your comment for misinformation, this is untrue.

> Reported your comment for misinformation, this is untrue. What does this even mean? We are in a discussion forum! If you have the evidence to the contrary, please post it. This is how people are educated, not by "reporting misinformation." Dang has enough to deal with already.

It’s not though. It makes no difference posting evidence or not to these people, it’s a waste of time.

But sure, here’s an article that breaks it down in simple terms https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/12/science/covid...

See the references at the end, it estimates a 50-70% reduction in infection rate for vaccinated people vs unvaccinated against the delta variant.

Re: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

#140

Post by defaulty »

maxerickson wrote: post #72
pluc wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a legit conspiracy with this very narrative. We have a handful of companies who have just been showered in public funds in the hopes that they produce something to make themselves irrelevant. It's not hard to believe that they'll lobby for the boosters regardless of the data.

That's a really bad characterization though, the vaccine studies were designed with the participation of government scientists (for sure with Moderna, which was developed in partnership with NIH). The idea that the corporate scientists are all utterly corrupt and also so much better at science that they can undermine the effectiveness of the vaccines without ruining them completely is nonsensical.

> The idea that the corporate scientists are all utterly corrupt

I don't believe the scientists are corrupt, but there's been enough corrupt businessmen in America that I take everything they say with a bag of salt. Promoting boosters sooner than needed is par for the course

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