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Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

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Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can be anticompetitive on their platform as long as their platform doesn’t have a lock on the market. So say, if you didn’t need to buy an iPhone and could buy an android instead, and if that actually happened in practice, Apple could reasonably argue they didn’t have a monopoly on the market even if they had a monopoly in their own platform.

Not when their platform holds the majority of users in the US and when they're colluding with the "competition".

A majority of users choose apple. but they didnt have to

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#142
post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

> In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. You're forgetting how that ended. Remember, the DOJ threw the book at Microsoft. It was an intensely publicized trial, with pretty much all the country hating Microsoft and Bill Gates. Waffling over the word "ask", the infamous "knife the baby" email, the Halloween documents and Embra…

This kind of glosses over the fact that they were found guilty of anticompetitive behavior in the EU.

They got a massive fine and were and forced to do things like open up the client server protocol used between Windows Domain Controllers and Windows Clients.

They came pretty close to being forced to open up the Office document formats, but the EU backed down from that one.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Back in 2001 there weren't any real alternatives to windows - Mac OS X Public Beta (2000) - SUSE Linux 7.0 (2000) - Debian 2.2 (2000) - OpenBSD 2.7 (2000) - Solaris 8 (2000) - AmigaOS 3.9 (2000) - and so on... [0] Hardly “no alternatives” in my humble opinion. And in office space, MS-DOS was still a thing for quite some time. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_operating_systems#...

None of those had the broad software options of windows. Everyday users who wanted to complete office tasks, use the internet, and play games were locked into windows. (The 2001 ruling also took a while and was based on pre-2001 behavior by MS and likely future behavior.)

You FAANG apologists are funny. There is a dude responding to someother person with "Nobody made people buy phones with Android or iOS, so why should those companies be punished for that by not allowing them to do whatever they want with their platforms".

Well guess what, none of the alternatives to Android and iOS phones have the "broad software options" or offer anything that could compete with these two systems. So what now?

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Apple have been caught colluding before on trying to keep software engineer salaries low. They also conveniently had the exact same app store fee for years. Doesn't make much sense if they were actually competing with each other

That's actually quite exactly the behavior you expect from a competitive duopoly. In a duopoly, I know that if I lower prices, you'll match. Operating at the Nash Equilibrium isn't anticompetitive. I'm not disagreeing with the conclusion -- I agree that they are colluding -- but the logic isn't right.

I'll tell you a secret. Game theory and economics is mostly voodoo wrapped up in statistical mumbo-jumbo. In other words, if economists could explain what is happening, why are they poor and have to go to work to make living?

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#145
post #92

I've grown pretty pessimistic about the prospects of the Internet as a motor for entrepreneurship. Today it is theoretically still "free" but wherever you go you'll find gatekeepers like Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and Microsoft that keep a tight grip on who is visible on the net and who can offer a service or software product on a given platform. In my view, the market dominance of the big players has led to a…

Thankfully I think Web3 (dapps made from composable protocols collaboratively developed by everyone) will form strong competition and maybe even replace Google in the next 5-10 years. Services like social media, finance, gaming, productivity, etc will all be interoperable by default providing a seamless user experience and be built by millions of developers around the world. Each company coding only what they special…

I'm pretty pessimistic about decentralized (blockchain-based) apps as well, almost all projects have been overtaken by speculators and fraud seems to be rampant, so I would not go near any of those. There really is no need to use blockchain technology to build decentralized infrastructure, most Internet 1.0 protocols are decentralized & federated and none of them relies on cryptocurrencies or a blockchain to function. So, sorry, but for me this whole movement is BS and seems more like a pyramid scheme than a real effort to build something useful.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#146
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when their platform holds the majority of users in the US and when they're colluding with the "competition".

A majority of users choose apple. but they didnt have to

Just like the majority of users choose to use Windows back in the day? They didn't had to. Linux was always a choice.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#147
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean Apple's monopoly position is even stronger because they can put roadblocks at the hardware level? :)

Because the whole device and experience is the product. It's not just an OS.

yep, that was the argument against the rebates and disbundling Windows from laptops.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#148
post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

A sibling comment pointed out that you're wrong about the Microsoft case. You're also seemingly under informed about monopolies. One of the core issues in the Microsoft case was that they're a horizontal monopoly. Microsoft's monopoly affects all players in the market because a majority of the players use Microsoft's OS. They used that leverage against Netscape and many other companies.

Apple on the other hand has a vertical monopoly, they control the whole stack from hardware to software. While their influence on iPhones is absolute, they don't have outsize influence on other phone vendors. Also while popular iPhones don't have a majority of really any phone market.

Antitrust considerations are different for different monopoly types. Unless a company with a vertical monopoly also had a market monopoly position and used that position to actively influence/harm other companies it's really hard to legally pursue them. You can't fault a company for building their own products and trying to make money from selling them. If a Samsung washing machine has some cool feature when paired with a Samsung dryer, just because Samsung has a monopoly on Samsung appliances doesn't mean they're violating some antitrust laws.

If anything Google is in bigger danger of antitrust suits since they have a more horizontal position in the phone market. While they have token entries in the hardware market they're an OS and service provider. Which is likely why they're supportive is sideloading and alternate app stores, if they behaved like Apple but with a horizontal monopoly the DoJ would be all over them.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#149

We have here smoking gun evidence that both Google and Apple themselves see themselves as a monopoly, see them commenting about how they "essentially function as one company", yet I absolutely guarantee we will get a torrent of comments denying that in this thread, I am sure with a lot of smug pasting of dictionary entries.

already happening. It's disgusting.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#150
post #92

I've grown pretty pessimistic about the prospects of the Internet as a motor for entrepreneurship. Today it is theoretically still "free" but wherever you go you'll find gatekeepers like Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and Microsoft that keep a tight grip on who is visible on the net and who can offer a service or software product on a given platform. In my view, the market dominance of the big players has led to a…

Thankfully I think Web3 (dapps made from composable protocols collaboratively developed by everyone) will form strong competition and maybe even replace Google in the next 5-10 years. Services like social media, finance, gaming, productivity, etc will all be interoperable by default providing a seamless user experience and be built by millions of developers around the world. Each company coding only what they special…

> Even Google can't compete with a decentralized worldwide developer network.

Google literally built their business on a decentralized worldwide developer network.

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