Earlier quoted context omitted.
They can be anticompetitive on their platform as long as their platform doesn’t have a lock on the market. So say, if you didn’t need to buy an iPhone and could buy an android instead, and if that actually happened in practice, Apple could reasonably argue they didn’t have a monopoly on the market even if they had a monopoly in their own platform.
Not when their platform holds the majority of users in the US and when they're colluding with the "competition".
Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
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Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#142In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.
> In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. You're forgetting how that ended. Remember, the DOJ threw the book at Microsoft. It was an intensely publicized trial, with pretty much all the country hating Microsoft and Bill Gates. Waffling over the word "ask", the infamous "knife the baby" email, the Halloween documents and Embra…
They got a massive fine and were and forced to do things like open up the client server protocol used between Windows Domain Controllers and Windows Clients.
They came pretty close to being forced to open up the Office document formats, but the EU backed down from that one.
Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Back in 2001 there weren't any real alternatives to windows - Mac OS X Public Beta (2000) - SUSE Linux 7.0 (2000) - Debian 2.2 (2000) - OpenBSD 2.7 (2000) - Solaris 8 (2000) - AmigaOS 3.9 (2000) - and so on... [0] Hardly “no alternatives” in my humble opinion. And in office space, MS-DOS was still a thing for quite some time. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_operating_systems#...
None of those had the broad software options of windows. Everyday users who wanted to complete office tasks, use the internet, and play games were locked into windows. (The 2001 ruling also took a while and was based on pre-2001 behavior by MS and likely future behavior.)
Well guess what, none of the alternatives to Android and iOS phones have the "broad software options" or offer anything that could compete with these two systems. So what now?
Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google and Apple have been caught colluding before on trying to keep software engineer salaries low. They also conveniently had the exact same app store fee for years. Doesn't make much sense if they were actually competing with each other
That's actually quite exactly the behavior you expect from a competitive duopoly. In a duopoly, I know that if I lower prices, you'll match. Operating at the Nash Equilibrium isn't anticompetitive. I'm not disagreeing with the conclusion -- I agree that they are colluding -- but the logic isn't right.
Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#145I've grown pretty pessimistic about the prospects of the Internet as a motor for entrepreneurship. Today it is theoretically still "free" but wherever you go you'll find gatekeepers like Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and Microsoft that keep a tight grip on who is visible on the net and who can offer a service or software product on a given platform. In my view, the market dominance of the big players has led to a…
Thankfully I think Web3 (dapps made from composable protocols collaboratively developed by everyone) will form strong competition and maybe even replace Google in the next 5-10 years. Services like social media, finance, gaming, productivity, etc will all be interoperable by default providing a seamless user experience and be built by millions of developers around the world. Each company coding only what they special…
Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not when their platform holds the majority of users in the US and when they're colluding with the "competition".
A majority of users choose apple. but they didnt have to
Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
You mean Apple's monopoly position is even stronger because they can put roadblocks at the hardware level? :)
Because the whole device and experience is the product. It's not just an OS.
Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#148In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.
Apple on the other hand has a vertical monopoly, they control the whole stack from hardware to software. While their influence on iPhones is absolute, they don't have outsize influence on other phone vendors. Also while popular iPhones don't have a majority of really any phone market.
Antitrust considerations are different for different monopoly types. Unless a company with a vertical monopoly also had a market monopoly position and used that position to actively influence/harm other companies it's really hard to legally pursue them. You can't fault a company for building their own products and trying to make money from selling them. If a Samsung washing machine has some cool feature when paired with a Samsung dryer, just because Samsung has a monopoly on Samsung appliances doesn't mean they're violating some antitrust laws.
If anything Google is in bigger danger of antitrust suits since they have a more horizontal position in the phone market. While they have token entries in the hardware market they're an OS and service provider. Which is likely why they're supportive is sideloading and alternate app stores, if they behaved like Apple but with a horizontal monopoly the DoJ would be all over them.
Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#149We have here smoking gun evidence that both Google and Apple themselves see themselves as a monopoly, see them commenting about how they "essentially function as one company", yet I absolutely guarantee we will get a torrent of comments denying that in this thread, I am sure with a lot of smug pasting of dictionary entries.
Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store
#150I've grown pretty pessimistic about the prospects of the Internet as a motor for entrepreneurship. Today it is theoretically still "free" but wherever you go you'll find gatekeepers like Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and Microsoft that keep a tight grip on who is visible on the net and who can offer a service or software product on a given platform. In my view, the market dominance of the big players has led to a…
Thankfully I think Web3 (dapps made from composable protocols collaboratively developed by everyone) will form strong competition and maybe even replace Google in the next 5-10 years. Services like social media, finance, gaming, productivity, etc will all be interoperable by default providing a seamless user experience and be built by millions of developers around the world. Each company coding only what they special…
Google literally built their business on a decentralized worldwide developer network.