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Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

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Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#91

Post by skohan »

laurent92 wrote: post #50
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it make a difference that Apple is the hardware manufacturer, whereas Microsoft just provides the OS for PCs in general?

It feels like I could find a line, to rationalize what happened or not to MS or Apple. But in reality, in the wake of 9/11, USA thought it was more important to have extremely large companies, and it let them grow. (And MS’ EU fine was related to not giving the API doc, and perhaps using fines as a political weapon). Clearly, if US applied the anti-monopoly laws, it would shoot its own companies. In my opinion howeve…

What does pro-corporate policy have to do with 9/11?

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#92

Post by Sargos »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #27

I've grown pretty pessimistic about the prospects of the Internet as a motor for entrepreneurship. Today it is theoretically still "free" but wherever you go you'll find gatekeepers like Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and Microsoft that keep a tight grip on who is visible on the net and who can offer a service or software product on a given platform. In my view, the market dominance of the big players has led to a…

Thankfully I think Web3 (dapps made from composable protocols collaboratively developed by everyone) will form strong competition and maybe even replace Google in the next 5-10 years. Services like social media, finance, gaming, productivity, etc will all be interoperable by default providing a seamless user experience and be built by millions of developers around the world. Each company coding only what they specialize in and being built on top of existing protocols leads to massive efficiency and what looks like exponential growth.

Tech monopolies will likely fade away over time like the early industrial revolution monopolies did just at an accelerated pace due to things working at internet speed. Even Google can't compete with a decentralized worldwide developer network.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#93

Post by llampx »

skohan wrote: post #91
laurent92 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like I could find a line, to rationalize what happened or not to MS or Apple. But in reality, in the wake of 9/11, USA thought it was more important to have extremely large companies, and it let them grow. (And MS’ EU fine was related to not giving the API doc, and perhaps using fines as a political weapon). Clearly, if US applied the anti-monopoly laws, it would shoot its own companies. In my opinion howeve…

What does pro-corporate policy have to do with 9/11?

It marked a shift in thinking and foreign policy

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#94

Post by howinteresting »

roenxi wrote: post #78
H8crilA wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean Apple's monopoly position is even stronger because they can put roadblocks at the hardware level? :)

The problem with that line of accusation is that Apple having a monopoly on the production and maintenance of Apple products isn't a very compelling threat. In a more reasonable market, like smartphones or phones in total, Apple just does not have a monopoly. There are alternatives.

Often the measure used for market share is not a linear one but a squared one.

By that measure, there is very little competition in the smartphone segment—it is highly concentrated and so the major players (both Apple and Google) should face greater antitrust scrutiny.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herfindahl%E2%80%93Hirschman...

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#95

Post by ant6n »

zpeti wrote: post #32
ThePhysicist wrote: post #27

I've grown pretty pessimistic about the prospects of the Internet as a motor for entrepreneurship. Today it is theoretically still "free" but wherever you go you'll find gatekeepers like Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and Microsoft that keep a tight grip on who is visible on the net and who can offer a service or software product on a given platform. In my view, the market dominance of the big players has led to a…

I think this is just the natural evolution of any market. Unfortunately it leads to this. There's not much competition in the railroad market, or the telco market anymore, which used to be massive spaces for innovation. There are two options: - We have to wait for the next technological revolution. - It is simply just more costly to be an entrepreneur. It's not about throwing together a website or app, it's much more…

There's competition in the railroad market in the EU,because they want there to be a market. In particular they mandate separation of infrastructure and operation, and force rail infrastructure owners to give open access to all (for a toll, which has to be the same for all operators). Once you can't use infrastructure as a moat, competition is much more possible.

The US which only regulates rail safety but not the market, has a bunch of local monopolies and calls that a market, being in total denial that markets need to be regulated to actually allow competition.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#96

Post by mhh__ »

jasode wrote: post #30
mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

>In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. That reductive summary is repeated but isn't accurate. Microsoft didn't get in trouble for adding its own IE web browser to Windows. (Software companies always add new features and enhancements.) The key nuance that triggered the government lawsuit was anti-competitive actions such as…

Apple have undocumented instructions now let alone APIs

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#97

Post by howinteresting »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #69
eptcyka wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they make both iOS and the iPhone doesn't mean they get a pass to be anticompetitive on their platform.

They can be anticompetitive on their platform as long as their platform doesn’t have a lock on the market. So say, if you didn’t need to buy an iPhone and could buy an android instead, and if that actually happened in practice, Apple could reasonably argue they didn’t have a monopoly on the market even if they had a monopoly in their own platform.

By the HHI, Apple absolutely has a lock on the market.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herfindahl%E2%80%93Hirschman...

With 53% market share, Apple alone contributes over 0.25 to the HHI. 0.25 for the entire market is regarded as highly concentrated.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#98

Post by Andrex »

mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

The MS decision got gutted on appeal, which merely emboldened the monopolistic practices which developed since the dot-com boom.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#99

Post by sulam »

luckylion wrote: post #66
sulam wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That line, bereft of context, is being used as if the two companies don’t compete in many many markets. Do you really think that the original context was as broad as the entire company’s operations? Or even the respective phone ecosystems? They clearly compete with each other heavily.

Maybe they aren't competing, but merely simulate competition in many markets. Why isn't the app-store-tax getting lower through heavy competition? In many cases, it looks like there's some mutual competition-simulation going. Google launches Google+ to pretend Facebook isn't the only social network, Microsoft launches Bing so Google can say "we don't have a monopoly on search", Google finances Firefox to say the same…

Yes, all capitalism is just a big agreement to channel all the assets to wealthy people. The only one not in on the secret is you.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#100

Post by Andrex »

jakecopp wrote: post #9

> After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showed that the execs agreed: "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company." ... > This unredacted graf shows that telcos get up to 25% of Google's app sales to keep them from developing rival app stores on the smartphones they sell and service. Insane reading.

I can see the justification for this in Android's early life. Every Android phone having its own app store would have been a disaster for everyone: users, developers, Google, and even telcos in the long run.

Hard to believe, but Google Play (nee Android Market) was pretty damn shabby until about 2013 or so.

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