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Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

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Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#71

Post by grishka »

sandworm101 wrote: post #64
NorwegianDude wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point still stands, especially on iOS where other browsers isn't even allowed and every browser has to be basically a reskin of safari. That way others can't add features or stability, forcing developers to use the app store and give Apple a large cut. This is much more serious that the Microsoft case.

Different times. Today we have more alternatives. iOS users have windows and hundreds of linux distros from which to choose. Back in 2001 there weren't any real alternatives to windows and so it was under greater scrutiny. The walled garden of iOS is a choice rather than a prison. Apple can get away today with things that Microsoft could not in the past. Times change.

Desktop OSes aren't alternatives to mobile ones. They serve different purposes.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#72

Post by moogly »

White_Wolf wrote: post #43
woofie11 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketshare. The law sees marketshare. * Google and Apple compete against each other, so there is no monopoly. * Microsoft had no effective competitors. You don't need a monopoly for antitrust, but it sure makes for a stronger case.

They do indeed compete but doesn't Apple have a monopoly on IOS with it's app store and Google on Android with PlayStore? At least on Android you can install you own market if you're so inclined. I have yet to find an alternative app store for ios though(might be just me not knowing where to look though). Edit: Forgot to add that when you're talking about Apple vs G I don't see it as 1 big "smartphone" market. It's 2…

From the very Twitter thread:

"Our vision is that we [Apple and Google] work as if we are one company."

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#73

Post by sandworm101 »

grishka wrote: post #71
sandworm101 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different times. Today we have more alternatives. iOS users have windows and hundreds of linux distros from which to choose. Back in 2001 there weren't any real alternatives to windows and so it was under greater scrutiny. The walled garden of iOS is a choice rather than a prison. Apple can get away today with things that Microsoft could not in the past. Times change.

Desktop OSes aren't alternatives to mobile ones. They serve different purposes.

Except when they are. There were windows phones briefly. And linux will run on phones. And Android laptops. Such choices were not around in 2001. PC users in 2001 would have killed for the number of options available to phone users today.

The 2001 decision was comparing desktop options at a time when they weren't any. Today's mobile users have plenty of options, plenty of brands and OSs to choose from.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#74

Post by steelframe »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #48
ren_engineer wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Apple have been caught colluding before on trying to keep software engineer salaries low. They also conveniently had the exact same app store fee for years. Doesn't make much sense if they were actually competing with each other

> have been caught colluding before on trying to keep software engineer salaries low. Wow they are really bad at this then. 200-400k without even requiring a college degree is pretty wild. It’s about what my brother made as a doctor and he had an undergraduate degree, medical school, an internship, a residency program…

Every former co-worker who I've talked to when they left Google did so for at least a 20% bump in total comp. The few Googlers I've talked to who left for Apple got equal or even a little less total comp.

Anecdotal, but once you get some years of Big Tech experience under your belt, I do think you become comparatively more valuable to smaller companies.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#75

Post by mkotowski »

sandworm101 wrote: post #64
NorwegianDude wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point still stands, especially on iOS where other browsers isn't even allowed and every browser has to be basically a reskin of safari. That way others can't add features or stability, forcing developers to use the app store and give Apple a large cut. This is much more serious that the Microsoft case.

Different times. Today we have more alternatives. iOS users have windows and hundreds of linux distros from which to choose. Back in 2001 there weren't any real alternatives to windows and so it was under greater scrutiny. The walled garden of iOS is a choice rather than a prison. Apple can get away today with things that Microsoft could not in the past. Times change.

> Back in 2001 there weren't any real alternatives to windows

- Mac OS X Public Beta (2000)

- SUSE Linux 7.0 (2000)

- Debian 2.2 (2000)

- OpenBSD 2.7 (2000)

- Solaris 8 (2000)

- AmigaOS 3.9 (2000)

- and so on... [0]

Hardly “no alternatives” in my humble opinion.

And in office space, MS-DOS was still a thing for quite some time.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_operating_systems#...

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#76

Post by moondistance »

Large companies have massive governance issues. When you get that large, you end up with an endless stream of people nattering on to compromise values for profits. Eventually, leadership gets sick of fighting or misses the impact of a big change. It's all downwards from there (the next piece of garbage in the room appears more quickly).

I think the only way out of this for companies - and governments - is to build AGIs and put them in charge.

I realize this will sound radical today, but we are getting closer and closer.

If we can carve a path where the AGIs see us as similar to parents, and we "teach" them similar to our kids, I can see how this could all work out (writing about this elsewhere).

My two cents.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#77

Post by IncRnd »

woofie11 wrote: post #25
mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

Marketshare. The law sees marketshare. * Google and Apple compete against each other, so there is no monopoly. * Microsoft had no effective competitors. You don't need a monopoly for antitrust, but it sure makes for a stronger case.

You should read the actual page before you comment!

From the article: After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showed that the execs agreed: "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company."

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#78

Post by roenxi »

H8crilA wrote: post #45
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it make a difference that Apple is the hardware manufacturer, whereas Microsoft just provides the OS for PCs in general?

You mean Apple's monopoly position is even stronger because they can put roadblocks at the hardware level? :)

The problem with that line of accusation is that Apple having a monopoly on the production and maintenance of Apple products isn't a very compelling threat.

In a more reasonable market, like smartphones or phones in total, Apple just does not have a monopoly. There are alternatives.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#79

Post by grishka »

lucasverra wrote: post #63

That is why we need trustless / censorship resistant platforms like “regular” web or the yet to be proven web 3 (led by ethereum)

No. We just need two things:

- it should be illegal to lock down a device against its end user

- governments should stop protecting companies and helping prevent adversarial interoperability

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#80

Post by sandworm101 »

mkotowski wrote: post #75
sandworm101 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different times. Today we have more alternatives. iOS users have windows and hundreds of linux distros from which to choose. Back in 2001 there weren't any real alternatives to windows and so it was under greater scrutiny. The walled garden of iOS is a choice rather than a prison. Apple can get away today with things that Microsoft could not in the past. Times change.

> Back in 2001 there weren't any real alternatives to windows - Mac OS X Public Beta (2000) - SUSE Linux 7.0 (2000) - Debian 2.2 (2000) - OpenBSD 2.7 (2000) - Solaris 8 (2000) - AmigaOS 3.9 (2000) - and so on... [0] Hardly “no alternatives” in my humble opinion. And in office space, MS-DOS was still a thing for quite some time. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_operating_systems#...

None of those had the broad software options of windows. Everyday users who wanted to complete office tasks, use the internet, and play games were locked into windows. (The 2001 ruling also took a while and was based on pre-2001 behavior by MS and likely future behavior.)
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