How The Hell Is This My Fault? • Hacker News Board

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#141

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:11 PM UTC

sunchild wrote: post #139

jacquesm wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul is not just 'some AirBNB investor', if you want to picture it that way, sure go ahead. AirBNB has - in my opinion - been doing the very wrong thing here for much too long and this will blow up at some point if something isn't done pronto. Tracking her down sounds like it was real work, believe me it wasn't, and as I explained below I gave her some hints on how to make that a lot harder than it was last night. I…

The nagging issue for me is the extremely unusual eloquence of the victim. I wanted to believe this was just another online echo-chamber shit-show until I read her blog posts and found EJ to be a level-headed, articulate and eminently reasonable person. EJ says that AirBnB didn't offer to help and stopped communicating with her after the 25th of June. That's in direct conflict with pg's report to TechCrunch. It's one…

I think the big issue is whether or not AirBNB offered assistance or not and if they did if it was unconditional.

If it turns out they attached a bunch of conditions to their offer (for instance: you have to remove your blog posts or you have to write something positive) then they might as well not have made these 'offers'.

An offer of help should be unconditional. And from EJs point of view being muzzled would obviously be unacceptable.

That's pure speculation on my part, but it is one interpretation that would be consistent with what everybody has said so far with nobody having told a falsehood.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#142

Post by class_vs_object » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:12 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #91

Everybody calm down please. EJ is real, she's a real person, it really did happen, just in case anybody was still wondering about that. I've passed her contact info to PG and him being the smart man that he is I'm pretty sure that he can come up with a solution that will satisfy everybody and will allow the victim to move on and get AirBNB past this crisis. Any words to the effect that AirBNB is 'setting precedent' a…

> I've passed her contact info to PG

This is the creepiest thing I've ever heard. She's had her personal space and privacy violated in a terrible way, and you're passing around her contact details? Did you ask her permission?

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#143

Post by rkalla » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:12 PM UTC

kyro wrote: post #126

diolpah wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" everybody that has a sister thinks 'that could be my sister'" Because ransacking the home of my brother is no big deal, according to modern gender politics, right?

Nah, probably because EJ is most likely female.

She is, she confirmed it in her followup blog post.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#144

Post by ulisesroche » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:13 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #136

jcunningham wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this is not a trial but she needs to publicly provide documentary evidence for everything she has said up to this point, including photos of any damage and her entire "email cache"? Please tell me who she owes this responsibility to?

> Please tell me who she owes this responsibility to? To the people, if she cares about public opinion. > That is because people will align with your story and your interests if they consider you to be the party that is speaking the truth. This summarizes it all.

So, by this reasoning, who does airbnb owe responsibility to?

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#145

Post by rexreed » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:15 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #97

kyro wrote: post #95

HN has been pretty disgusting the last few days: the level of schadenfreude here has hit ridiculous new highs. It seems that every time a story breaks about a successful company, a bunch of envious and disgruntled people come out of the woodwork and jump onto the bandwagon headed straight for the founders' heads. A community of seemingly intelligent and rational individuals turns into the most rabid, emotionally-char…

It's 'schadenfreude'. This issue is very emotionally charged because: - everybody that uses AirBNB thought 'this could be me' - everybody that has a sister thinks 'that could be my sister' - everybody that runs a start-up thinks 'this could be a shakedown' (including some preposterous claims about hotel chains putting her up to this) - everybody is wondering if AirBNB is sitting on a huge stack of cash why they didn'…

This is probably the most useful comment of the bunch for me personally and my startup - I'm trying to learn from other people's lessons (it's the cheapest way to learn), and I think what you said above really helps. I made the comment elsewhere, but here's what I learned:

* Respond quickly

* Respond in the open so that there's no he-said / she-said

* Be fair, and err on the side of the customer

* Don't spin the company line - be thoughtful, especially if someone has lost money / time / confidence / data / faith in humanity

* Think "This could be me / this could be someone I know & love"

* If relevant, get the authorities involved quickly so that you can be sure it's not a shakedown.

* Assume the customer is telling you the truth unless you have specific and verifiable reason to believe otherwise

* Get insurance

* Don't let others (especially those with interests) speak for you.

* Try to establish a single point person for all contact with the customer, and make that person easily and quickly available to the customer at the customer's behest

* Try not to respond to what's said in the press

Did I miss any good lessons here?

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#146

Post by nanijoe » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:19 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #111

jcunningham wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the Airbnb guys have already given her contact info to PG if they had wanted to? What made you decide to do so and did you ask her for permission to pass on her details to a third party?

> Wouldn't the Airbnb guys have already given her contact info to PG if they had wanted to? Maybe. > What made you decide to do so and did you ask her for permission to pass on her details to a third party? I think that PG is a very smart guy and I have some personal reasons to believe that PG has his heart very much in the right place when it comes to things that are this personal. I can not go in to details there,…

I suspect pg will not misuse EJ's contact details, but I sure as hell would be pretty pissed off if my personal contact info was passed around in this manner.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#147

Post by leftcoaster » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:19 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #111

jcunningham wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the Airbnb guys have already given her contact info to PG if they had wanted to? What made you decide to do so and did you ask her for permission to pass on her details to a third party?

> Wouldn't the Airbnb guys have already given her contact info to PG if they had wanted to? Maybe. > What made you decide to do so and did you ask her for permission to pass on her details to a third party? I think that PG is a very smart guy and I have some personal reasons to believe that PG has his heart very much in the right place when it comes to things that are this personal. I can not go in to details there,…

"I did not ask for her permission, but I think that her information is in very trusted hands with Paul and I am 100% sure that he would never ever abuse it."

Wow, how exactly is that your decision to make?

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#148

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:20 PM UTC

class_vs_object wrote: post #142

jacquesm wrote: post #91

Everybody calm down please. EJ is real, she's a real person, it really did happen, just in case anybody was still wondering about that. I've passed her contact info to PG and him being the smart man that he is I'm pretty sure that he can come up with a solution that will satisfy everybody and will allow the victim to move on and get AirBNB past this crisis. Any words to the effect that AirBNB is 'setting precedent' a…

> I've passed her contact info to PG This is the creepiest thing I've ever heard. She's had her personal space and privacy violated in a terrible way, and you're passing around her contact details? Did you ask her permission?

> She's had per personal space and privacy violated in a terrible way, and you're passing around her contact details?

I passed her contact information to the one guy that I think can keep his head cool enough to solve this in a way that is beneficial to her. You may disagree with that but that's fine with me.

> She mentioned in both blog posts that she is trying to keep her personal details private.

Yes, and I helped her doing just that by pointing out which parts of her blog allow people to figure out who she is.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#149

Post by ulisesroche » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:22 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #111

jcunningham wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the Airbnb guys have already given her contact info to PG if they had wanted to? What made you decide to do so and did you ask her for permission to pass on her details to a third party?

> Wouldn't the Airbnb guys have already given her contact info to PG if they had wanted to? Maybe. > What made you decide to do so and did you ask her for permission to pass on her details to a third party? I think that PG is a very smart guy and I have some personal reasons to believe that PG has his heart very much in the right place when it comes to things that are this personal. I can not go in to details there,…

Jacques, listen: Airbnb already called the grownups, and he made an even bigger mess. You're telling us to calm down, to not be so brash, but you should have asked for her permission.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#150

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 1:28 PM UTC

leftcoaster wrote: post #147

jacquesm wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't the Airbnb guys have already given her contact info to PG if they had wanted to? Maybe. > What made you decide to do so and did you ask her for permission to pass on her details to a third party? I think that PG is a very smart guy and I have some personal reasons to believe that PG has his heart very much in the right place when it comes to things that are this personal. I can not go in to details there,…

"I did not ask for her permission, but I think that her information is in very trusted hands with Paul and I am 100% sure that he would never ever abuse it." Wow, how exactly is that your decision to make?

It may come as a surprise to you, but I generally do what I think is right in life. I've been wrong on occasion in the past but in this particular case I feel that this is the right thing to do. Feel free to disagree.

With what I know about PG and the situation as it has been presented to date if he gets involved he will resolve it, if he does not then it will quite probably blow up with as the only winners the lawyers.

Note that technically EJ is not entitled to any compensation, but morally she definitely is.

Someone that can influence AirBNB to do the right thing here and that has a very good idea on what the public opinion on this thing will do to AirBNB when - not if - it will hit the mainstream is what's called for.

Judging by the speed with which HN has turned from 'gung ho pro AirBNB' to ripping it to shreds I think that there is evidence enough that the public opinion will not be favorable to AirBNB and that PG is well aware of this.