Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#41

Post by Xelbair » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #30

mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

>In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. That reductive summary is repeated but isn't accurate. Microsoft didn't get in trouble for adding its own IE web browser to Windows. (Software companies always add new features and enhancements.) The key nuance that triggered the government lawsuit was anti-competitive actions such as…

which is basically nothing compared to google/apple of today.They are basically forcing you to use them as a middle-man for any app you want. While getting a cut from all transactions.

Non-google app stores cannot automatically update aps, side-loading is hidden in menus behind scary warnings.

IOS forcing you to use safari no matter what, and there is no way to side-load apps, nor any non-apple app stores.

chrome de facto sets web standards, giving them slight edge over other browsers - and they do use chrome specific APIs to cripple other browsers - like YouTube working worse on Firefox due that reason.

And that's even without taking into the consideration all the tracking in form of telemetry on the devices, coupled with their own ads markets.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#42

Post by ren_engineer » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

woofie11 wrote: post #25

mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

Marketshare. The law sees marketshare. * Google and Apple compete against each other, so there is no monopoly. * Microsoft had no effective competitors. You don't need a monopoly for antitrust, but it sure makes for a stronger case.

Google and Apple have been caught colluding before on trying to keep software engineer salaries low.

They also conveniently had the exact same app store fee for years. Doesn't make much sense if they were actually competing with each other

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#43

Post by White_Wolf » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

woofie11 wrote: post #25

mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

Marketshare. The law sees marketshare. * Google and Apple compete against each other, so there is no monopoly. * Microsoft had no effective competitors. You don't need a monopoly for antitrust, but it sure makes for a stronger case.

They do indeed compete but doesn't Apple have a monopoly on IOS with it's app store and Google on Android with PlayStore?

At least on Android you can install you own market if you're so inclined. I have yet to find an alternative app store for ios though(might be just me not knowing where to look though).

Edit: Forgot to add that when you're talking about Apple vs G I don't see it as 1 big "smartphone" market. It's 2 different ones. Apple hardware running iOS vs generic hardware running Android.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#44

Post by Xelbair » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

JCWasmx86 wrote: post #36

alex_young wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only does Apple include its own browser, it forces other browsers to use Safari under the hood on iOS.

Ironically this is the only thing preventing a chromium monopoly with probably >90% of marketshare (Although this restriction is still not that great for the user)

so if this restriction was gone, it would make everything more sane for customer, while finally dealing with chromium monopoly.

sounds like a win-win to me.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#45

Post by H8crilA » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #37

NorwegianDude wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point still stands, especially on iOS where other browsers isn't even allowed and every browser has to be basically a reskin of safari. That way others can't add features or stability, forcing developers to use the app store and give Apple a large cut. This is much more serious that the Microsoft case.

Does it make a difference that Apple is the hardware manufacturer, whereas Microsoft just provides the OS for PCs in general?

You mean Apple's monopoly position is even stronger because they can put roadblocks at the hardware level? :)

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#46

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

NorwegianDude wrote: post #35

jasode wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. That reductive summary is repeated but isn't accurate. Microsoft didn't get in trouble for adding its own IE web browser to Windows. (Software companies always add new features and enhancements.) The key nuance that triggered the government lawsuit was anti-competitive actions such as…

His point still stands, especially on iOS where other browsers isn't even allowed and every browser has to be basically a reskin of safari. That way others can't add features or stability, forcing developers to use the app store and give Apple a large cut. This is much more serious that the Microsoft case.

[deleted]

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#47

Post by kook_throwaway » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

Who redacted this in the first place, and how would it have been sealed? Much of it is clearly redacted for PR reasons, and I don't really understand how there could be any excuse for keeping it hidden.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#48

Post by JohnJamesRambo » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

ren_engineer wrote: post #42

woofie11 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketshare. The law sees marketshare. * Google and Apple compete against each other, so there is no monopoly. * Microsoft had no effective competitors. You don't need a monopoly for antitrust, but it sure makes for a stronger case.

Google and Apple have been caught colluding before on trying to keep software engineer salaries low. They also conveniently had the exact same app store fee for years. Doesn't make much sense if they were actually competing with each other

> have been caught colluding before on trying to keep software engineer salaries low.

Wow they are really bad at this then. 200-400k without even requiring a college degree is pretty wild. It’s about what my brother made as a doctor and he had an undergraduate degree, medical school, an internship, a residency program…

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#49

Post by amelius » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #37

NorwegianDude wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point still stands, especially on iOS where other browsers isn't even allowed and every browser has to be basically a reskin of safari. That way others can't add features or stability, forcing developers to use the app store and give Apple a large cut. This is much more serious that the Microsoft case.

Does it make a difference that Apple is the hardware manufacturer, whereas Microsoft just provides the OS for PCs in general?

Do you think the consumer would have been better off if Microsoft was the hardware manufacturer too, back then?

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#50

Post by laurent92 » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #37

NorwegianDude wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point still stands, especially on iOS where other browsers isn't even allowed and every browser has to be basically a reskin of safari. That way others can't add features or stability, forcing developers to use the app store and give Apple a large cut. This is much more serious that the Microsoft case.

Does it make a difference that Apple is the hardware manufacturer, whereas Microsoft just provides the OS for PCs in general?

It feels like I could find a line, to rationalize what happened or not to MS or Apple.

But in reality, in the wake of 9/11, USA thought it was more important to have extremely large companies, and it let them grow.

(And MS’ EU fine was related to not giving the API doc, and perhaps using fines as a political weapon).

Clearly, if US applied the anti-monopoly laws, it would shoot its own companies. In my opinion however, no single entity should dominate, govt or enterprise, and we must parcel large ones to keep competition fair, replacements rolling, class mobility high, the american dream possible for new entrants and more importantly, so that governance of our daily life is regularly given to the next generation.