i cant stop thinking about the tesla bot. was he he outright lying? is it just a ploy to recruit robotics people? is it even plausible? i think the most challenging aspect of the idea is interacting with the world, picking up and handling various objects. its obvious from the presentation that fsd is very good at placing itself in space and mapping out its environment as well as devising routes even when accounting f…
An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
81–90 of 132 posts
Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
>is it even plausible? The last commercial anthropomorphic was the Willow Garage PR2 back in 2010. It weighed 600 pounds, and had a wheeled base. Each arm had a max payload of 4 pounds. It cost $250,000. The company went bankrupt because there wasn't anything you could do with it. The tesla bot is supposed to be bipedal, only weigh 125 pounds, and have a "arm extend lift" of 10 lbs. Is that per arm, or both together?…
i think this comment illuminates the issue. seems like an industry veteran (unconfirmed) thinks having the thing walking around is plausible but is confused about interaction. https://old.reddit.com/r/robotics/comments/p7t14o/tesla_reve...
(The robot picks up a screwdriver, and a screw. Then the screw slips out of its fingers. Now what? It lines up the screw and the screwdriver. It applies torque. The head of the screw strips out. Now what? The pain of robotics is that you need to cover each and every little error case, because if you don't, the damn thing doesn't work, because it has no brain! This is why every industrial robot is massively overbuilt, and it's environment and fixturing is carefully simplified and fenced off, because error handling is such a pain in the real world, where a dropped item bounces away and hides under a bench or in an orientation where your gripper can't pick it up. 1 in 1000 is too high of an error rate. 1 in 10000 is too much. It has to function perfectly, every time, every grasp.)
And the maintenance costs! Mechanical humanoid hands are terrible end effectors. All little moving parts and lousy tolerances. They would need constant repair and replacement. It couldn't possibly be cheaper than a human in 2021 or 2030.
Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#83The fact that they didn't do this: > Their current training cluster would be the 5th largest supercomputer if Tesla stopped all real workloads, ran Linpack, and submitted it to the Top500 list. which is trivial to do, and pretty much a must when bringing up the cluster to make sure its working properly, so much that most clusters do this on every maintainance, along with another bunch of benchmarks; and that they say…
I don't get it - they're using it for actual work, rather than burning power to run useless benchmarks for bragging rights - and you think that makes it hype?! Surely it's the opposite - running benchmarks rather than doing something useful is hype.
You have to connect thousands of cables, have hundreds of nodes, with thousands of components, everything interconnected, and if you connect one wrong, the computer outputs incorrect results. You have to routinely update the software, and if a software upgrade introduces a 20% perf regression (which happens), then your 10 MWh cluster starts burning 2MWh for nothing. Or maybe your cooling system sucks, and after a minute of running at full capacity, you need to throttle your cluster to 0.1% of the peak to keep it cool enough that it runs "something".
That's why all systems in the top500 i've been involved with (15 or so) run these benchmarks as an integration tests on every single cluster maintenance (node updates, servicing, OS updates, etc.).
Submitting these results to the Top500 costs you nothing... if your cluster actually works. When you submit to the Top500, they ask for access so that they can re-run them themselves, which happens typically during / after the next maintenance to avoid impacting any users.
If they haven't submitted, 100% sure their cluster does not deliver what they say it should deliver on paper. Maybe it delivers 1% of it, or 0.01% of it (seen both cases in real life). If they haven't fixed it, then maybe it can't be fixed.
HPL, MLPerf, Spec, Stream, OSU.... these are not "benchmarks for bragging rights", these are tests that show that your system works.
Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#84I find it surprising that google, amazon and now tesla can enter the « build your own processor » market that easily. Isn’t it more likely that they’re in fact only defining the general spec, and then use the services of other companies specialized in actually designing cpus ?
The machine-learning parts are custom but the rest are probably similar to what you would find in a smartphone chip.
Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't get it - they're using it for actual work, rather than burning power to run useless benchmarks for bragging rights - and you think that makes it hype?! Surely it's the opposite - running benchmarks rather than doing something useful is hype.
You have never built a super computer, have you? You have to connect thousands of cables, have hundreds of nodes, with thousands of components, everything interconnected, and if you connect one wrong, the computer outputs incorrect results. You have to routinely update the software, and if a software upgrade introduces a 20% perf regression (which happens), then your 10 MWh cluster starts burning 2MWh for nothing. Or…
Why run someone else's benchmark and not your own application to test performance? And what's the point of submitting to Top500? Why do you care how your system ranks? What's the business or technical purpose in that?
Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#86i cant stop thinking about the tesla bot. was he he outright lying? is it just a ploy to recruit robotics people? is it even plausible? i think the most challenging aspect of the idea is interacting with the world, picking up and handling various objects. its obvious from the presentation that fsd is very good at placing itself in space and mapping out its environment as well as devising routes even when accounting f…
i dont know why people downvote the shit out of me whatever i post. it seems like HN has become a cesspit of idiots... anyway i was very interested to see my comment validated by this guy https://old.reddit.com/r/robotics/comments/p7t14o/tesla_reve...
For those that want to push downward, the present system highly leverages their ability to do so simply through the process or habit of frequent downvoting.
If there is any perception that there was a time when there was very little detectable smell by comparison, it would be good to assess the average downvote-per-user rate then, and compare it to today's figure.
Then measure each user along this scale, perhaps including a time component, or relative to activity in some way.
Allowing for a reasonable standard deviation, it might be better if frequent downvoters past a certain range had the weight of each downvote normalized and see what happens.
This could possibly also be tuned to achieve a target level of discourse relative to a previously-considered-desirable data point in time.
Alternatively, users alone appear theoretically able to overcome the issue if there was a widespread concerted or random effort to frequently upvote the comments or postings seen descending, whether fully deserved or not, keeping them at least neutral without having a negative effect on the commenter's rating.
Mathematically a small uptick in "compensatory upvoting" habits among average users could bring the target way up as long as the overly-frequent downvoters are in the vast minority.
Then when there is true downward consensus it will still always drop through, but those who participate mainly to downvote will have less negative impact.
The only thing worse than the "nattering nabobs of negativity" are the non-nattering nabobs of even worse negativity.
Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#87The fact that they didn't do this: > Their current training cluster would be the 5th largest supercomputer if Tesla stopped all real workloads, ran Linpack, and submitted it to the Top500 list. which is trivial to do, and pretty much a must when bringing up the cluster to make sure its working properly, so much that most clusters do this on every maintainance, along with another bunch of benchmarks; and that they say…
Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Performance per watt is not improving that much, nor is feature size. You'll probably never be carrying around a supercomputer with this many FLOPS.
Even with reversible computing?
Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#89Re: An inside look at the custom CPUs in Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer
#90I find it surprising that google, amazon and now tesla can enter the « build your own processor » market that easily. Isn’t it more likely that they’re in fact only defining the general spec, and then use the services of other companies specialized in actually designing cpus ?
A multi-billion transistor CPU is an insanely complex product, there are multiple layers coming together to make it possible. The base layer is the foundry, here TSMC, which does the manufacturing and provides reference design kits. They contain for example the blueprints for transistors and other electrical components. For a digital chips like processors, they are usually used as they come from the foundry.
Next is a layer of software which enables the chip designs, provided by the big EDA companies. This is a rather huge layer, enabling the basic designs on the one side, but also including all kind of simulation and verification tools. And quite some engineering knowledge comes along with it.
So if you want to start designing your own CPU, you still need good engineers who know what they are doing, but large parts of the whole "stack" can and have to bought from the vendors listed above. This enables the quick entries of companies into the market, who were not traditional chip design houses.