A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong • Hacker News Board

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#421

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #125

Jcowell wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, is criminal regulation better than legal regulation? Are sexually trafficked victims truly helped when this work is criminalized rather than heavily regulated ? To me it’s like how some states try to combat Teen pregnancy and abortion by teaching abstinence instead of proper health education and provide accessible resources.

There's no known way at present to regulate sex work in a way that keeps traffickers from coercing their victims to work for their benefit. Many countries outside the U.S. have tried and failed to do this. Maybe you can make the case for a teeny tiny niche of specialty services, too specialized to ever appeal to the traffickers; but even if that was in fact viable it's extremely hard politically to argue for such a t…

>There's no known way at present to regulate sex work in a way that keeps traffickers from coercing their victims to work for their benefit. Many countries outside the U.S. have tried and failed to do this

yes, much like many other modern companies and how they abuse workers, or turn a blind eye to abuse.

I'd rather be able to report my company to some labor board and get them sued than render my work illegal and have me arrested for snitching on myself.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#422

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:02 AM UTC

dmamills wrote: post #129

> These rules will basically require that OnlyFans (and every other site that accepts MasterCard payments) not only fully verify every user and every person who appears in every adult video, but review all posted content before publication, including real-time review of livestreams It became extremely difficult to prove that there are not naked children on our platform. So we've decided to take our money and run.

well, yes. That's all businesses. If the costs exceed the expected revenue, then you either eat the loss or reduce the (potential) operating costs.

There isn't many (moral) ways to allow for reviewing every submission manually while also getting content published in a timely matter. Not for a site this size.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#423

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:06 AM UTC

PastaMonster wrote: post #312

I've read through the comments. Pornhub debacle is mentioned often. No one here is mentioning that many people have fantasies like a rape fantasy, a teenage fantasy, etc. A good search algorithm picks up on that and will make suggestions based on your previous searches/watched videos and the videos other people with similar interests have watched. This should be obvious. The videos have bad unspecified titles because…

>What is it people don't get about this?

these "people" get it. They just don't care if it's rape or a rape fantasy. or in fact just regular vanilla sex between a couple. They want it all gone. For everyone.

> It's just sad how sexually repressed some people are and that they think they have the right to control other people. It feels like we are one step from starting to burn "witches" and books again.

tbf that's almost human nature at this point. Some people just enjoy leading/ruling/controlling others. This is just another form of control for them.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#424

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:11 AM UTC

throw3849 wrote: post #195

Every US porn site needs to keep record of models, release forms etc.. This has been problem for a long time, for example old VHS tapes do not usually comply. OnlyFans and other sites were in violation of these rules for very long time. Edit: fix typo

Onlyfans is not employing their workers. They aren't bound to the rules since they aren't documented as "a porn site" and have no binding employment contract with them. These laws don't apply and I'm sure actual legal experts on these companies know this better than you.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#425

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

throw3849 wrote: post #255

dragonwriter wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OnlyFans and other sites very in violation of these rules for very long time. I think the big problem is actually with fairly recent changes in how the rules are applied (and maybe to the rules themselves, not just application) to intermediate distributors between the producer and the consumer which has caused existing sites to have compliance issues.

OnlyFans is still a pornsite and should comply. Pornhub has the same producer/subscribers model and is doing fine.

>Pornhub has the same producer/subscribers model and is doing fine.

No it doesn't. They "verify" users to upload, but they aren't necessarily verifying every second of content they upload. Which is why the site STILL has copyrighted content (e.g. animated hentai) uploaded.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#426

Post by denton-scratch » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:13 AM UTC

slippery_bridge wrote: post #347

neolog wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bodies are used commercially all the time, such as in manual labor, physical therapy, disability care, security, policing, military service, athletics, dancing, commercial modeling, ... The problem that's particular to sex work is legal systems that fail to prevent coercion. This is exacerbated by religious advocacy groups that try to make sex work harder without making it safer.

Paying somebody to do something physical and paying somebody to physically use their body are two completely different things

I think parent means "paying somebody so that you can physically use their body".

Clearly, paying somebody to use their own body to e.g. pitch hay for you isn't much different from paying them to use their own body to do any other kind of physical labour for you.

Paying people to be physically intimate with you is definitely different. But it's worth considering cases that don't involve sex: carers dress you, they wash you, including your sex organs and your arse, and they clean up after you.

All that is definitely physically intimate - arguably much more intimate than a 15-minute bump-and-grind session with a person that despises you.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#427

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

jmull wrote: post #5

I'm sorry, but blaming all this on a NYT opinion piece is idiotic.

https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1s9f698vwhczr...

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#428

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

ramesh31 wrote: post #101

Regardless of the CSAM issue, regardless of the "revenge porn" issue, even for fully legitimate performers these publishers such as OnlyFans and Pornhub are acting as digital pimps skimming billions of dollars from the value provided by their users. We should be promoting FOSS alternatives that allow performers to truly own their own content and control who profits from it. Not crying over the takedown of another wal…

The "FOSS" alternative is a single model with their own site, which some bigger ones have.

Even then, they have to setup some payment processor, on top of domain/hosing costs and find some solution on designing the actual page. Mostly doable, but a pain. Except I don't think we'll have FOSS payment processing software until (if ever) cryptocurrency becomes mainstream.

This is like asking why everyone uploads to Steam when they can just publish their game on their own website. These services are selling convivence and curation (and to a much lesser extent, "security". i.e. the website isn't full of viruses), like 90% of the big websites.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#429

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:22 AM UTC

throwawayswede wrote: post #69

I'm not knocking down anyone's decision for how to earn money or spend their time, but the porn industry in general (corporate or indie) is notorious for exploitative attitudes and behavior, whether it's Pornhub exploiting unverifiable nature of some videos and favoring turning a blind eye to the whole thing until tension mounted, or a someone being in a relationship with someone else and doing videos together becaus…

>but the porn industry in general (corporate or indie) is notorious for exploitative attitudes and behavior

like pretty much every industry nowadays. If I had to scrub my life of everything profiting off of exploitation, I wouldn't have much left. Even if my computer survived, I wouldn't even have animated pornography because the animation industry in general is also exploitative.

To each their own, but I just see this as the latest example of taking a nail out by demolishing the entire wall. The nail is still there and there's a bunch of non-nail material hit in the crossfire

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#430

Post by amai » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 12:16 PM UTC

There are so many companies out there profiting from selling weapons, destroying the environment and misusing cheap labour in awful dictatorships. But these are issues Mastercard and Visa don‘t seem to care about at all. Where is the NYT article pointing out these issues?