Generics enabled by default in Go tip • Hacker News Board

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#21

Post by Taek » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

puddingforears wrote: post #17

silisili wrote: post #9

Not to be contrary for its sake, but I'll say this is one change I'm really not happy about. I feel like it's a change to placate many, while driving a lesser amount away. Which is fine, but still feels like the end of something, as I am one of the aforementioned 'lesser.' As for why...I love above most the simplicity and readability of Go. Any change which encroaches that, which this does, is a net negative to me.

How would you write a singly linked list who’s contents are arbitrary? What if you were to map a function over it? Say you want to use this data structure with third-party objects? How do you do that right now?

Find a different way to solve the problem. I've written close to half a million lines of code in Go and the lack of generics has been a pain point in maybe 1% of that? Usually, if you are thinking about generics you are reaching for abstraction when you don't need to be.

If you really need generic structures you can use the interface type but generally there's a simpler solution that doesn't require generics.

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#22

Post by silisili » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:26 AM UTC

puddingforears wrote: post #17

silisili wrote: post #9

Not to be contrary for its sake, but I'll say this is one change I'm really not happy about. I feel like it's a change to placate many, while driving a lesser amount away. Which is fine, but still feels like the end of something, as I am one of the aforementioned 'lesser.' As for why...I love above most the simplicity and readability of Go. Any change which encroaches that, which this does, is a net negative to me.

How would you write a singly linked list who’s contents are arbitrary? What if you were to map a function over it? Say you want to use this data structure with third-party objects? How do you do that right now?

You don't write singly linked lists of arbitrary data :).

In my 20+ years of development, I've definitely realized everyone's brains and approaches work differently.

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#23

Post by tptacek » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:26 AM UTC

puddingforears wrote: post #17

silisili wrote: post #9

Not to be contrary for its sake, but I'll say this is one change I'm really not happy about. I feel like it's a change to placate many, while driving a lesser amount away. Which is fine, but still feels like the end of something, as I am one of the aforementioned 'lesser.' As for why...I love above most the simplicity and readability of Go. Any change which encroaches that, which this does, is a net negative to me.

How would you write a singly linked list who’s contents are arbitrary? What if you were to map a function over it? Say you want to use this data structure with third-party objects? How do you do that right now?

You wouldn't. Everybody goes into Go thinking that's absurdly confining. Some significant subset of Go programmers learn that they instead find it liberating. Programming is programming; you have an overwhelming number of degrees of freedom no matter what language you work in. It sometimes turns out that taking some of those degrees out of the language makes it easier to focus them on your problem domain.

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#24

Post by silisili » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:26 AM UTC

tengbretson wrote: post #19

silisili wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might me, in time. As mentioned, my main interest in Go is in how easily I can read others code. This kinda ruins that, even if I never use it.

Learning something is also an option.

Thank you.

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#25

Post by mountainriver » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

_wldu wrote: post #11

silisili wrote: post #9

Not to be contrary for its sake, but I'll say this is one change I'm really not happy about. I feel like it's a change to placate many, while driving a lesser amount away. Which is fine, but still feels like the end of something, as I am one of the aforementioned 'lesser.' As for why...I love above most the simplicity and readability of Go. Any change which encroaches that, which this does, is a net negative to me.

I agree about placating. Go is fine as it is. I don't need or want generics, but the addition of generics won't stop me from using Go.

I didn’t need generics till I wrote a mathematical library, and wow they would be handy

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#26

Post by Taek » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

Not excited about this feature, I guess we'll see how frequently it shows up in unwanted places. Generics in C++ really damage the readability of the code sometimes, maybe the go devs have found a better way.

Very skeptical, but the go devs have given me plenty of pleasant surprises before, maybe we get another one here.

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#27

Post by durbatuluk » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

puddingforears wrote: post #17

silisili wrote: post #9

Not to be contrary for its sake, but I'll say this is one change I'm really not happy about. I feel like it's a change to placate many, while driving a lesser amount away. Which is fine, but still feels like the end of something, as I am one of the aforementioned 'lesser.' As for why...I love above most the simplicity and readability of Go. Any change which encroaches that, which this does, is a net negative to me.

How would you write a singly linked list who’s contents are arbitrary? What if you were to map a function over it? Say you want to use this data structure with third-party objects? How do you do that right now?

You can do something similar to container package which has a double impl.

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#28

Post by 5e92cb50239222b » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:31 AM UTC

Taek wrote: post #26

Not excited about this feature, I guess we'll see how frequently it shows up in unwanted places. Generics in C++ really damage the readability of the code sometimes, maybe the go devs have found a better way. Very skeptical, but the go devs have given me plenty of pleasant surprises before, maybe we get another one here.

Even I know (not really being a heavy C++ user) that C++ doesn't have generics, it has templates, which is a much more powerful concept that's often overused.

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#29

Post by silisili » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:31 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #23

puddingforears wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you write a singly linked list who’s contents are arbitrary? What if you were to map a function over it? Say you want to use this data structure with third-party objects? How do you do that right now?

You wouldn't. Everybody goes into Go thinking that's absurdly confining. Some significant subset of Go programmers learn that they instead find it liberating. Programming is programming; you have an overwhelming number of degrees of freedom no matter what language you work in. It sometimes turns out that taking some of those degrees out of the language makes it easier to focus them on your problem domain.

I could not have said it better myself, despite trying. Thank you.

Re: Generics enabled by default in Go tip

#30

Post by papaf » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:32 AM UTC

Taek wrote: post #26

Not excited about this feature, I guess we'll see how frequently it shows up in unwanted places. Generics in C++ really damage the readability of the code sometimes, maybe the go devs have found a better way. Very skeptical, but the go devs have given me plenty of pleasant surprises before, maybe we get another one here.

Generics in C++ really damage the readability of the code sometimes, maybe the go devs have found a better way.

The culture might help. I think generics in Java are not overused -- partly because they are not so powerful and partly because Java, similar to Go, did not have generics for a long time.