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Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

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Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#51

Post by [deleted] »

hinkley wrote: post #47
naravara wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What arguments do people have for resisting it?

Some people think 'store water' and immediately jump to cisterns, or above-ground storage tanks. You simply cannot store a useful amount of water above ground, and exposing it to light and air (and thus mosquitoes) is a whole other set of problems. Some people do it anyway, others get very upset about what they see as wasted time and resources. Storing water [this way] is fundamentally about reserving the right to be…

[deleted]

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#52

Post by nanomonkey »

baxtr wrote: post #49
hinkley wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think 'store water' and immediately jump to cisterns, or above-ground storage tanks. You simply cannot store a useful amount of water above ground, and exposing it to light and air (and thus mosquitoes) is a whole other set of problems. Some people do it anyway, others get very upset about what they see as wasted time and resources. Storing water [this way] is fundamentally about reserving the right to be…

What is the right way to do it then? Can share any resources on this topic? I think it's very interesting.

Basically you want to slow the flow of water and increase the soil's permeability and retention capabilities. Beaver dams are a good way to start, but things like Hugelkultur burms, terracing and swales are all methods of capturing water run off and directing them into the ground where they can enter aquafers or be absorbed by the immediate soil.

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#53

Post by rocqua »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #40

Water retention needs to be made a bigger issue globally. Others eluded to the fact that what is effectively the draining of the water cycle in CA is a main cause of CA's water/fire problems, but that is also the problem in places like central Europe where the straightening of the rivers during industrialization (19th C.) is and has essentially been "draining the swamp" of the central European water cycle. It's somet…

Interesting. As a European (dutch even, so more water interested) I would love to learn more.

I often felt that, in agriculture we (dutchies) have over engineered for short term profits. I wonder if the same holds for our water engineering.

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#54

Post by secondcoming »

nanomonkey wrote: post #52
baxtr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the right way to do it then? Can share any resources on this topic? I think it's very interesting.

Basically you want to slow the flow of water and increase the soil's permeability and retention capabilities. Beaver dams are a good way to start, but things like Hugelkultur burms, terracing and swales are all methods of capturing water run off and directing them into the ground where they can enter aquafers or be absorbed by the immediate soil.

That technique has led to conflict for over 4000 years though [0]

[0] http://www.worldwater.org/conflict/list/

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#55

Post by AareyBaba »

baxtr wrote: post #49
hinkley wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think 'store water' and immediately jump to cisterns, or above-ground storage tanks. You simply cannot store a useful amount of water above ground, and exposing it to light and air (and thus mosquitoes) is a whole other set of problems. Some people do it anyway, others get very upset about what they see as wasted time and resources. Storing water [this way] is fundamentally about reserving the right to be…

What is the right way to do it then? Can share any resources on this topic? I think it's very interesting.

You might find this project in India informative https://youtu.be/-8nqnOcoLqE?t=60

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#56

Post by Cerium »

hinkley wrote: post #29
themanmaran wrote: post #13

Very long winded. The actual technique is only described about 2/3s the way through. They're using canals to divert water into well draining soil. "They use water canals called amunas – a Quechua word meaning "to retain" – to divert wet-season flows from mountain streams and route them to natural infiltration basins." "Because the water moves more slowly underground as it travels through gravel and soil, it emerges d…

Ground storage of fresh water is a simple technique that people seem to resist. 'Controversial' is not the right word but in the permaculture community there is a definite divide between people who embrace it and those who resist. The interactions are... frustrating. There's also a relationship between water, soil health and climate change. The rule of thumb is that an acre of land can store an additional 20k gallons…

I didn't know it was controversial. In San Jose we have many (currently dry) ground water recharge ponds where water is let in for the purposes of seeping into the water table. Much of the city uses ground water, the resulting water is quite hard but has a decent flavor profile.

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#57

Post by jhayward »

vanderZwan wrote: post #9

I can't speak for Peru specifically, but natural ecosystems play a huge role in absorbing and holding on to rain water, ensuring it doesn't all just flow back into the sea. This has been known for ages - I remember a friend who did environmental sciences telling me stories of cities in developing countries that cut all the nearby forests and as a side-effect also ruined their water supply. So with that in mind I'm a…

There is a really interesting example of the role of the surface vegetation for groundwater in Bamberger Ranch[1] in Central Texas.

Central Texas was massively overgrazed by cattle in the 1800's and 1900's, and the ecosystem was completely transformed from prairie grass dominant to cedar and mesquite dominant vegetation. This resulted in a drastic loss of groundwater and utterly transformed the ecosystem.

David Bamberger restored 5,500 acres to close to original condition and the results are amazing.

[1] https://bambergerranch.org/

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#58

Post by hinkley »

secondcoming wrote: post #54
nanomonkey wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically you want to slow the flow of water and increase the soil's permeability and retention capabilities. Beaver dams are a good way to start, but things like Hugelkultur burms, terracing and swales are all methods of capturing water run off and directing them into the ground where they can enter aquafers or be absorbed by the immediate soil.

That technique has led to conflict for over 4000 years though [0] [0] http://www.worldwater.org/conflict/list/

Stopping is different from slowing. Slow water keeps streams from drying up in the summer. Lots of stories of seeps and seasonal streams coming back after years of having dried up.

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#59

Post by markdown »

hinkley wrote: post #29
themanmaran wrote: post #13

Very long winded. The actual technique is only described about 2/3s the way through. They're using canals to divert water into well draining soil. "They use water canals called amunas – a Quechua word meaning "to retain" – to divert wet-season flows from mountain streams and route them to natural infiltration basins." "Because the water moves more slowly underground as it travels through gravel and soil, it emerges d…

Ground storage of fresh water is a simple technique that people seem to resist. 'Controversial' is not the right word but in the permaculture community there is a definite divide between people who embrace it and those who resist. The interactions are... frustrating. There's also a relationship between water, soil health and climate change. The rule of thumb is that an acre of land can store an additional 20k gallons…

Interesting. I thought the use of swales was pretty well accepted. Surprised to hear that there's a faction that's opposed to that.

Re: Peru is reviving a pre-Incan technology for water

#60

Post by throawayaaaaa »

naravara wrote: post #46
hinkley wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ground storage of fresh water is a simple technique that people seem to resist. 'Controversial' is not the right word but in the permaculture community there is a definite divide between people who embrace it and those who resist. The interactions are... frustrating. There's also a relationship between water, soil health and climate change. The rule of thumb is that an acre of land can store an additional 20k gallons…

What arguments do people have for resisting it?

Pumping groundwater can cause subsidence https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/water-science-school/scie...
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